SD Techniques rated

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Slindsay, Jul 26, 2004.

  1. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Allright this may be a difficult concept to get across but here we go anyway:

    Assume the following:

    1 on 1 fight

    you and the attacker are the same size and build

    you have trained in MA for 2 years trainning equally in the following techniques

    he has no MA experience but is for whatever reason very aggresive

    you have no idea if he is armed/unarmed but you see no evidence of a weapon

    Now in 100 repeats of the fight that followed how often would the following techniques prove to be crucial to your win (Basically rate each technique out of 100)

    Jab/Reverse combo

    Blocking Techniques(State the style of blocking, for example I find my WTF blocking to be nearly useless so would have to rate this area as 3ish)

    Elbow Attacks

    Knee Attacks

    Headbutts

    Sidekick

    Turning Kick

    Front Snap kick

    Pushing Techniques

    Standing Grappling

    Choke Holds, Joint Locks (Included as a seperate entity to grappling as can be applied to standing and floor grappling AFAIK and can be used to restrain opponent after beating the stuffing out of him, also taught as part of my TKS SD curriculum))

    Floor Grappling

    Yes, yes I KNOW this isnt a very good way of evaluating SD techniques but I cant come up with any better ideas, bear in mind you will get a shot at finishing the fight with kicks before knees and hands and elbows and all the striking will have a chance at finishing the fight before he closes enough to grapple. Also standing grappling will have a chance to finish the fight before you go to the floor(So please dont go and rate it as Floor Fighting 100, everything else 0).

    I'm trying to be serious here, if people have suggestions about technques I have missed out then feel free to be nice and tell me, dont shout at me :D
     
  2. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Okay, in a Fight. An exchange of Blows.
    Jab-Cross is a Bread and Butter combination, learn to throw it well with power, doesn't matter if we are talking Punches or Jab-Cross as palm Heel strikes. The mechanism is the same.

    Blocking Techniques as seen in alot of Martial Arts often work well against the attacking techniques of the system of Martial Arts that you are practising, but against Normal Punches etc, chances are you'll be blocking with your teeth. Hence your point about the WTF Blocks.

    Much better to have a strong guard and let the forearms and elbows absorb the barrage of punches, that combined with Body movement and footwork and you have a more practical base for your defence.

    Elbows can be devastating at Close Range. Point is most systems of Martial arts don't throw them at close range, the elbow strikes you see alot of styles throwing, you may as well send your attacker an email letting them know that it's on it's way.

    Elbows should be thrown from your solid guard (see Blocking section above) with very little 'flap' (of the arms) to give away their imminent arrival. The Movement of the trunk of the body and the legs is what gives the elbow strike its power and the masking of its arc is what gives it its stun. They should use the same movement and mechanics as punches, particularly with relevance to the hook and the uppercut.

    Knowing when to apply them is the boon. As with everything else, don't look for them, just let them happen.

    Knee strikes are one of the hardest things to get right. Other than the old Knee into Nads or Face, which is a totally 'Knee-Jerk' reaction. For most Folk who don't practice them on a regular basis, just stick to the Knee to the sweetmeats and leave it at that, otherwise you'll find yourself coming a cropper.

    Muay Thai knees are some of the most difficult techniques within that Art to get right and with good mechanics, depending upon what attack it is, IE Push/ Straight Knee, Diagonal, Hook from the Side etc etc.

    Headbutts-see most of the section on elbows, devastating if done right, major problem if messed up.

    Side Kick-With Shoes on to the legs can be a nice nasty shocker. Into body during an altercation, just remember one thing, Catching hold of things is a natural human reaction, it doesn't take years of training to be able grab most kicks and the human body is alot more resilient than some would give it credit for. When Kicking in SD situations, care and attention is your first priority, better to go for the legs and keep kicks low.

    Turning Kick (???) is that A Roundhouse, if so then Full Hip and Shin with maximum power into and through the inside and outside of knee joints, or low at the ankle bones. Any higher than Groin height and you are playing the Lottery. Also great as Double Leg sweeps, to take people completely off their feet. Hams and Quads are decent enough targets, but generally can't be relied upon to be Stoppers, so go for Inside and Outside of the Legs as mentioned.

    Front Snap Kick. I don't Snap kicks, to me it's a waste of energy and lacking power. I could see that it would be useful as a Shin and Instep kick against the Nads but other than that...Any Front Kick from me is either going to be a Power push kick to the centre mass at the Pelvis (care and attention to avoid grabs) or better yet to the legs, particularly Coup de pied Bas.

    Kicking in Self defence is one of the most effective and yet fraught tactics, literally a double-edged sword and I find that in order to use Kicks in Self-defence, you really need to be a really good kicker or stick to Combatatives style stomping kicks and just practice those.

    Also, I have to point out that the results of your kicks often do not match up to expectations in real life situations, even though they were delivered with power and hit the target nicely (speaking from experience here).

    Pushing Techniques are great as 'Drop the centre of your mass lower than the attackers and shove with entire body techniques when up close'. But, BUT! You have to immediately follow them up and create Forward drive, with Kicks and Punches, otherwise you get Danziged (yes, I got one in!).

    Standing grappling/ Clinchwork etc. Basic familiarity can save your skin and can and often will happen, even if you haven't or don't want to train for it. ust basic Judo/Muay Thai/ Wrestling familiarity means that you can turn a potentially disadvantaged situation into a real opportunity.

    That doesn't mean to say that you have give up the rest of your training and become the submission master in orde to triumph, just that real situations often end up in a Grappling type situation and that knowing how to fold the attackers arms up across their body and trip them or how to turn into a throw and execute, are great skills to know. Escapes from Basic holds is imperative.

    Chokes-really important skill to know, really important.

    Ground Grappling-Being able to reverse and escape common situations that you may find yourself in is vitally important, there is nothing worse than being pinned or mounted and getting your face pummeled in from under the mount and struggling in vain to get out of it.

    Joint Locks-Of less importance than Chokes or Basic positional Grappling. Useful from a truly-rounded Self defence training perspective, in that not every situation requires Knock-outs or stomping the assailant into the ground. A few Basic Locking tricks are fine, but you don't need to know forty two wrist releases etc, one or two will do.

    So Ranking in terms of Importance to cap off this Mammoth post:

    Strikes (punches, HB's, Knees, Elbows)
    Chokes
    Basic Grappling and Ground Grappling
    Shoves-Kicks
    Joint Locks
     
  3. Tittan

    Tittan Valued Member

    First of all, I am so very glad I didn't end up in a fight after only two years of MA training! Second, it's a bit difficult to say what technique a person would use the most, since you only say "have trained in MA"... Jujitsu? Kickboxing? Krav Maga? (Hope you see what I try to point out here...)

    I know what I'd use now, after almost 8 years though, but it's not the answer you'd want :p

    I would use anything that made me win the fight in as short as possible time.

    What I've found is this:

    Joint locks just don't do it for me. I'm not good enough with them to make them work as adrenaline is surging trough my veins.

    Standing there blocking, well... I did that once, the fight lasted for 5 minutes and I only came out on top of it due to the fact that the two attackers was wasted on drugs and alcohol.

    What do work (for me) is to get close (behind a functional guard) and pound the mofo with my elbows and knees untill he stops.
    Fingers to the face in a raking motion is a charm!

    Please notice: I live in a country where guns are banned and actually not carried by very many people, and where knives don't come up that quick. Off course, I'd be more careful if I saw the blade, but untill then I'd get close, control the opponents arms and elbow the guy to the ground. :rolleyes:
     
  4. #1 Stutta

    #1 Stutta The New Boot

    That's a big question with a lot of answers. I'm reading it as though you're fighting your "twin" except you've done MA and he hasn't. Hmm......

    My strengths are low kicks, blocking, and clinch and distance fighting (depends on the person I'm fighting). My weakness is groundfighting.

    Human instinct (for him) would be catching, punching, and clinch fighting. His weakness would be distance fighting and maybe groundfighting, too (he's the same as me just w/o MA).

    I would have to list those techniques you mentioned in this order for me.

    Standing Grappling
    Elbow Attacks
    Knee Attacks
    Blocking
    Pushing Techniques
    Punches
    Side Kick
    Choke Holds
    Front Snap Kick
    Turning Kick
    Floor Grappling
    Head Butts
    Joint Locks

    But for a standard streetfight.

    Standing Grappling
    Floor Grappling
    Pushing Techniques
    Punches
    Blocking
    Choke Holds
    Front Snap Kick
    Elbow Attacks
    Head Butts
    Side Kick
    Knee Attacks
    Turning Kick
    Joint Locks
     
  5. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    SokKlab has covered this very well, but I guess because we all tend to fight differently, we have different skill bias.

    Jab/Reverse combo/Blocking Techniques : For me this is very much chicken and egg. Jab/cross is bread and butter, no question, but it depends on a) set up b) opponent c) your own skill. So I'd rate these about the same, just as a cover all. As most things TMA blocks require some adaptation to be effective. I've recently started some training in JJJ, which can break "blocking" down to something very similar to what I have seen in Bluar's SPEAR system. In short, to use blocks on their own is not effective. A simulataneous block and strike is far better.

    Elbow Attacks: On thier own a fantastic tool to have. I don't have much clinch fighting experience, but I would say these are invaluable.

    Knee Attacks: On thier own not much cop. In clinch fighting excellent "surprise" strikes, depending on where you hit and how you do it.

    Headbutts: Fantastic. Damn hard to do though, as often you need to overcome the fear of using your head.

    Sidekick: Low rating. Not to say that they can't be effective, but as a rule of thumb (thumb being don't take your feet of the ground), not a great option. Distance from opponent can be an issue.

    Turning Kick:As above, but better. The Muay Thai kick is exceptionally painful, but I would go for ending a fight, rather than softening them up, but then I tend to be a headhunter. That said can be used as an excellent set up, but thumb rule applies. Distance from opponent can be an issue.

    Front Snap kick: Only one way I could use this, as a flick to the testicles. Not particularly effective. Thumb applies. Distance from opponent can be an issue.

    Pushing Techniques: If trained right can be very good set up techniques. Putting someone off balance is always a bonus, that said they don't really cause much damage.

    Standing Grappling: Vital after initial strikes.

    Choke Holds, Joint Locks: Personally I rate these quite high, but then that might have more to do with my line of work (where striking is not the first option). The difficulty is making them real. Conveluted wrist locks and moves are very hard to pull off against a resistive opponent. Arm/shoulder locks are very easy and effective. I guess on the street I would use these to move an opponent to a more prone position, thus not necassarily fight enders.

    Floor Grappling: An important part of the "game". Definately a "cover yer ****" method of fighting. Being on the ground is probably the worst place to be, doesn't mean you won't end up there.

    I notice throws haven't been mentioned. I'm only just learning these properly, but I would say they have a place. I'm not sure what place at the moment.

    Realistically speaking any technique can be made to work, given the right environment, but more essentially the right set up.
     

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