Science and God hand in hand...

I think you might be onto something there Wanderer. Although science has probably helped disprove many facts that were at first believed in the bible. Even though the latest trend in atheism probably has more to do with ppl seeing enormous faults in the belief and the way the church handles certain topics in todays society-including homosexual relations and marriage, abortion and contraception use.

Christian

 

tekk old buddy here's the rub.

Something is there. You can cal it xyz as much as you can call it 'divinity'.
objectively speaking *something* is there.

Whether you care or can be bothered about that something is entirely subjective to you..

And if you like you can also have some fun with it
Just remember to keep your lightsaber handy at all times & I'm sure you'll have bags of it.

 

You can demonstrate it in a test based around their claimed ability.

 

That my exact point... the religious people argue that God, divinity and whatnot is absolute. Which fails to explain why there are not only differing views via multiple religions (therefore the validity of each religion is subjective), but more importantly, differing views within each religion. If subjectively has no place god/divinity why isn't Christianity or other religion united? It's because groups of people have different interpretations on their version and often sees each group arguing that their version is the true version )

In actual fact there is probably a unique definition of God for every person who believes in him. So, every time someone worships God they worship their own mental conception of what God is.

 

I think that it is important to separate the religious personand the spiritual personfrom each other for they are rarely ever the same person...

 

I beleive that anyone that follows things spiritual and digs deep enough to find answers will inevitably end up in the same place, religion is mans incapability of understanding things spiritual and passing on their understanding of things which they dont understand themselves to others, subjectivity plays a major part in this but with understanding also comes a lot of tests, it is easy to make money from religious games and most people choose this path out of greed.

but like the wanderer says there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality, this is what causes most of the confusion, and even spirituality has been chopped and changed and malipulated due to mans corrupt subjective views and lame understanding of these things, and again this happens mainly out of greed, with fake healers, psuedo spirituality, tarrots, etc etc all demand money for their services.

But to me the spirit does exist and their is such a thing as a spiritual life and its not just something that exists subjectively in a persons mind, chinese philosophy points to things spiritual, taoist, chi, budism, in japan spirituality still plays a major part in peoples lives, my understanding of God is that he is spirit, this to me tells me he is finding ways of bringing people to him.

Although I am a beleiver in the bible I am not afraid to question things when I have problems with certain subjects, like I am been taught at the moment that the only path to God is by following the bible, it also says that God is just and fair, if the bible was the only way it is pure arragance to think that a budist monk would drop everything he does and beleives and would lead a Christian way of life just because he is told to, and it is unfair that this person would be punished for following the only thing he knows about.

My understanding is that the new testament is Gods way of bringing the remainder of people to him.

With regards to science and God, science is objective, understanding God is subjective, science will never disprove God as he exists outside of the material realm, but science is doing a good job of approving what I beleived subjectively which was written in the bible, also I beleive that the ability we have to study things objectively has come from God in the first place, this to me is the only rational explanation for having this ability in the first place, it cant have just popped up from nowhere.

But there is also a science religion which seems to be working hard to disprove that there is a God or a spiritual life, a friend told me yesterday a scientist was on the radio claiming to have found the first fish, and was using this to aprove the evolution theory, this to me is pointless, they are mixing objectivity with subjectivity and coming up with there own conclusions and passing it onto other people as the truth, this is religion, and the same thing is going to happen with this side of science, there will be a divide, one group beleiving 1 theory, another beleiving there own.

its pointless because if there is one thing we can all be sure of and that is the fact that right now we are in life, we can see, comprehend things, enjoy things, laugh, cry, have fun, and appreciate things, rather than trying to work out why the sea does this and sun does that and trees are for this etc I think life could be better spent looking at things from the wow perspective and appreciating that things are the way they are rather than wasting life searching for things that they will never find the answers to.

In conclusion I think that science is beneficial, I cant dismiss that, human lifestyle is a lot easier now thanks to objective research, but trying to use this to find the answers to life is just a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside of an enigma, i dont think we will ever find the answers this way.

 

i suppose so, but i was talking more about inner experiences which clarify esp for the individual experiencing it, e.g. obe's, clairvoyance.

what about psychics who work with police to "find" dead bodies? ive seen stuff like this on the discovery channel which seems unlikely to be down to chance guessing.
then theres good ol' uri gellar

 

"Inner experiences" don't really prove anything. I find it funny how people claim they have "gifts" then fail to evidence it in any way.

Source, or have you been watching The Gift

Anyway, research "Cold Reading" and watch The Messish which i posted as there is a section on it.

Watch this video: http://www.darat.org/~dimossi/James.Randi.debunking.on.Tonight.Show.wmv

 

they prove to the individual who experiences it. the only proof is for yourself, people who'v have a near death experience on a hospital bed could pull there hair out trying to explain it, its beyond words or speech. the same as an obe.

the kind of people who beleive they're gifted arent gifted at all. We're talking unused senses at the end of the day.

 

Bingo, nail on head. then WHY is this so hard for them to grasp? :bang:

"something" well i suppose thats a step up from the "invisable man who lives in the sky and will set you on fire if you don't love him" theory.

Its more about weather or not IT can be bothered. Fun? you bet your ass, on slow sunday mornings i like to stroll down the street and read the church signs. PRICELESS

And i think you'd be wrong.

Find me a High-school level educated individual who has no knowladge of religion, and try to pitch it to him.....don't be surprised if he raises an eyebrow. Religion is taught and learned, divinity isn't natural.

as for the 2nd part. i think you're right.

 

tekk - moved by either heaven or hell.?? no not really

 

say what?

 

NOT religion, but the idea of divinity...

 

Well I haven’t read all the posts on this thread yet but my understanding is that science is the study of nature and all that is WITHIN nature. God is however above nature so only reflections of his presence exist within nature fore some to see but not god in his fullness. Therefore you cannot find god by contemplating what is within nature but what is without nature. Find the place where nature is not and you will find god.

O

 

I see two possibilities:

There is no place where there is no nature == there is no God.

The only place where I can contemplate that is without nature is in my mind. Hence God is in my mind.

 

NEITHER is natural. you must be indocternated into religion to be instilled with any idea/sense of divinity

 

A friend of mine took acid and had a completely convincing vision of his own father's head leaving his shoulders, rotating 360 degrees and then coming down again.

Not everything we witness through our senses at times of extreme stress, injury, or shock correlates to something that actually happened in the real world.

Now if someone with no history of mental illness were walking down the street and had a vision of an angel, I'd find that a lot more convincing than someone who saw some weird stuff when their body was literally on the edge of death.