San Shou - rules, competitions, basic info?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by wcrevdonner, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. wcrevdonner

    wcrevdonner Valued Member

    Hi there

    Looking for info on rules of San Shou, competitions in GB, (or similar style comps)

    If anyone could help that would be great.


  2. Rockhound

    Rockhound Valued Member

    Try this page on the BCCMA (British Council for Chinese Martial Arts)website... fourth one down is "International Sanshou Competition Rules".

    It's a start, anyway ;)
    Google is your friend!
  3. wcrevdonner

    wcrevdonner Valued Member

    Cheers for that!

    Would you believe I actually with search engines? In my defence, I did look for the BCCMA before, and thier site wasn't up. I also was looking for other organisations that may hold these events since I read (last year admittedly) that you had to be a member of the BCCMA before you could enter.

    But thanks very much for that again.
  4. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    BCCMA has a really poor web site.

    The next San Shou is on June 17 in Milton Keynes (but try finding it referred to on the BCCMA web site).

    If you are interested, don’t bother going to watch, just put up for a fight as the standard is not so high that you will get hurt and the numbers of people entering tend to be low so that it becomes hard to make up weight classes.

    The rules are not as straightforward as the BCCMA rules listing make out.

    We had one guy disqualified at the last event for breaking a rule that was not specified in the pre fight rule briefing nor is it on the rules list on the sight.
    I myself received three warnings for clinching round the neck… me where it says that you can’t clinch on the neck…also by the last warning I was down to only putting one fore arm onto the other guys collar bone area……still got warned…..
    It looks really funny on the video, I have one arm only ‘near’ his neck, my other hand is free and because suddenly I cannot clinch and defend myself in the way I am trained to do the other guy is hitting me (all be it weakly) at will, only to have the fight stopped so that I can be warned again for clinching the neck.
    The only rules about the neck are- No attacking the neck area and no grabbing the neck and pulling into punches.
    I put this down to the judges being shaolin guys and not having a clue about the grappling aspect of san shou.

    Another really odd rule that they do not explain and do not handle well is push outs. San Shou is meant to be fought on a raised platform, a lei tai, but the BCCMA very rarely use one. Sadly the international rules do not account for the lack of a lei tai, so they fudge it by saying that if you push an opponent out, if you are still touching him at the point he leaves the area then it is not a push out.
    This is important because if you get pushed out twice in a round, you loose it (or vice versa). For example, in my last BCCMA fight, I won the first round in a total of 22 seconds and didn’t get hit once. Just two straight push outs. The next round took four and a half minuets!

    It is sad that the BCCMA has control of san shou in the UK (they have squeezed out the only rival with underhanded methods) as they are doing san shou no favours, just look at the poor web site and at how many phone calls had to be made to just find dates of events. I could go on into how politically corrupt and inept they are (with the almost sole exception of Tony Swanson, the Chairman and the only person worth contacting if you have a question) but I am starting to ramble.

    If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
  5. chris lomas

    chris lomas Valued Member

    Just to say I have a very skilled friend in the BCCMA and he wanted to get his students along to practise San Shou (and they probably would have done very well) but they messed him about so much not telling him times, dates etc that he eventually just gave up the idea. It is such a shame when politics controls genuine practisioners.
  6. Rockhound

    Rockhound Valued Member

    :eek: Never knew the politics re the BCCMA was that machiavellian... just did a search and posted the result... my bad.

    Ah hey :Angel:
  7. wazzabi

    wazzabi sushi eater

    i wonder why there's no san shou guys in MMA, or at least you never here of any. in theory it's just as good as any other stand up art, so won't a BJJ trained San Shou guy do well in something like the UFC?
  8. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    They should still do it.

    The main problem with the BCCMA (as far as I see it) is that it is dominated by a few clubs with an interest.

    For example, the first BCCMA event I did (national open), I beat two guys from the same club after some very dodgy ref'ing and won my weight category. Was I picked for the national squad to go to the (then) up comming european championships....Nope. Oddly, both the guys I beat (in straight rounds) were picked. Well, it was odd, until we found out that the ref was not only the teacher of the two guys I beat, but was the guy who picked the team!

    The only way that this will change is if more clubs get involved and spread the power.

    Fundamentally, the San Shou scene in the UK is about providing a squad and providing an ego boost to several BCCMA "executives" , not about the sport of san shou!

    There was another San Shou circuit in the UK but the BCCMA squeezed them out by saying that anyone who fought for the other lot could not fight in BCCMA events and by putting compulsory squad training days on the same day as the other lots fight nights.
  9. chris lomas

    chris lomas Valued Member

    Sure he should do it, so 'should' my class as change won't happen without people actively changing things. But whilst I don't want to answer for my friend, I know why I don't do it.

    I would love my students (myself also) to go along to get some experiance and have a fun time meeting other people, learning different approaches. I believe that many of my students are skilled fighters and could cross this ability over to the game and teach a few things as well as learn them. Few would be bothered about the 'competition' aspect but I'm sure that crossing hands with other practisioners could only benefit them.

    However if I want them to go along and I have to fight for dates and times. Then probably face a wall of threatened egos when we arrive. Then dodgy refereeing. Finally we give more face to the organisers and there students by participating and therefore making the whole thing look like less of a farce when they send there blues eyed boys abroad. As a hypothetical it looks less appealing.

    My energy goes into my Kung Fu practise, I can see only wasted energy and frustrating politics lie down that path. So I shold do it like I should make more of an effort to be green by driving an electric car - I'm too lazy, too little energy to make a difference :)
  10. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    I hate this as well. I really want to be on the UK squad, but despite never dropping a round, let alone a fight I don't get picked.

    Now they insist that to be considered for the team you must go to squad training days and be trained by a (nameless) person that I have no respect for.

    The only other San Shou in the UK (not really san shou as the rules are slightly different) is held by Dan Docherty in Oxford every spring. Sadly you just missed it.
  11. King_Of_Sanshou

    King_Of_Sanshou New Member

    Hi Liokault, I do sanshou also (but don't be mislead by my ID, I am no King). I have competed in sanshou for 6 years and will be retiring soon. My greatest acheivements were representing Singapore in the 2004 Asian Wushu Championships and 2005 World Wushu Championships, though I did not win anything. I have won titles in both forms and fighting in my country. Looking forward to getting to know more sanshou practitioners around the world.


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