-Sadism is a state in which a person derives pleasure (sexually or emotionally) from the pain or hurting of others (could be in a variety of ways). -Masochism is the opposite. It is when a person derives pleasure (sexually or emotionally) from the pain or hurting of themselves (also could be in many different ways). I wanted to explore this topic. We all know that there are sadists and masochists among us. They're in our communities, churches, schools, and maybe even one you know and love is a part of this, shall we say, "unique" group. I feel that there is certainly a bit to be derived from psychological knowledge on the subject. Some may argue that these are no different than being sociopathic (sociopathic meaning that there is no guilt or emotion toward others). In fact they are. Whereas sociopaths (some serial killers are sociopathic) feel nothing, sadists and masochists do feel something. It's a positive emotion derived out of harm, whether it be of themselves or of others. Now, this is the part that gets me thinking. If they have such a skewed perception according to "normally" developed individuals, what makes them that way? Perhaps a chemical inbalance in the brain. Maybe it's due to some sort of trauma earlier in life, maybe a dark childhood experience. Perhaps it is due to an undeveloped or different set of morals. Some strong Christian theists may even argue that the devil has a part to play in it. We can't be 100% sure about the cause, but this group of people is certainly intriguing to me. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's my puzzlement of how one would be able to feel good about harming others. They see it as perfectly normal. It's normal to them. Yet, society views this group as being sick and disturbing (which is common to things they don't understand ). I just wanted to open up the topic for discussion, as I certainly would like to dig deeper. I'm curious of your thoughts.
Well, you certainly did post to the right forum, martial artists enjoy causing and receiving pain more than anyone !!! Some serious points: You mention "harm", it's not like they are slaughtering each other, it is about causing a varying and usually mutually agreed-upon amount of pain. I believe that people in the (BD)SM community are very careful to avoid actual harm. This kind of behaviour often has more to do with control than pain itself, and there is certainly a lot of emotion involved. PS: what is "normal"?
"normal"... That's exactly my point of putting it in quotation marks. That is because there is no true "normal". And your point about the BDSM community, that is only one facet of S&M. There are many who let out those tendencies in more... unjustified ways, to say it lightly.
I am not entirely sure what your point is, to be honest. Some of our primal insticts, like agressive behaviour/violence can be expressed in a number of ways, controlled and positive or uncontrolled and harmful or something in-between. Combat sports is a healthy way of expressing a particular instict, beating up your wife is the flip side. (NOTE: this is an oversimplified example; LOTS of other variables applay in both cases, eg: competitiveness (sp?), need to prove oneself, frustration, jealousy etc). There is also a (very very thick) line drawn between Secretary (the film) and Ed Gein (the psycho) but they are related. As you apply a concept to a widening population specimen you will find that it may get less acceptable by the majority, possibly changing from "normal" to "unacceptable". You don't have to look into complicated subjects like BDSM, it is pretty much the same with D&D i'd say A closed community of people enjoying something that nobody else really understands, often looked upon as weird - if there was sex involved they might even be prosecuted/persecuted. You know, i am really tired as i type and i am not sure that i have a well defined point either . Watch "Kinsey", lots of food for thought in there, through the simplest of facts. Another PS: It's all a bell curve.
I remember learning in my psychology classes that "sadism" is often understood as a primary and "masochism" a secondary reaction to trauma. "Masochism" is secondary in the sense that "sadism" is directed inward, against oneself. If a child has a mother who has neglected his needs, he might as a grown up seek revenge in sadistic fantasies and possibly act them out against women. This very same type of person may feel the need to recreate an old traumatic scenario in an attempt to resolve now what was impossible to solve back then. So for example this child got spanked by his mother, he might need to repeat that scene by having his girlfriend do the same to him as an adult. Or he may attempt a reversal of the situation by spanking his girlfriend. ... please don't ask me why I know about this... like I said I took a few psych courses There are varied views about the causes and diagnoses of SM. One thing I remember about the Kinsey reports and other research data obtained in the 70's was that SM practitioners are very different as people. Many of them are very highly functional in society, well respected, with high level of education. I believe Freud had a pretty broad view on SM in the sense that he viewed there was a "normal" to "extreme" sadistic tendencyand the same for masochistic persons. He associated men with the outgoing, assertive, dominating, "sadistic" type of sexuality and women with the receptive, submissive, "masochistic" type. It's only when these normal impulses become exaggerated, that the person becomes "perverted"
.... well you did ask for our thoughts, and mine are fortunately based on what I have learned and not experience
Masochistic tendencies it certianly feels like deep down we all have Masochistic tendencies, i mean for one we all study martial arts, and i dont know about all of your experiences but this generally involves getting my **** handed to me on a plate on a regular basis. and when you fight, ether in your club or just messing around with your friends, theres that second when you know there about to throw a punch, and you just drop your guard deleberatly sothat thay can hit you, now maybe im wierd, but there is somthing satisifying about fighting somtimes, and you feel best about yourself after you lose the fight. i would argue that im not the only person who feels this way, there is somthing emotionaly satisifying about pain, i guess it reminds you that you are alive, sure a positave emotion would be a more enjoyable way to be reminded, but in the absence of light, darkness prevailes. and negitave emotions e.g pain are all we have to remind us that we are alive somtimes.
... hence the saying " hurts so good" .... I say it all the time during class AZeitung ... you'll have to wait to read the book!
I don't really feel I have any masochistic tendencies while training in martial arts. Pain is necessary and I don't really crave it. I'll deal with it, though.
Any pain I get training, sparring or combat bears no relation to pain received consensually while role playing with a willing partner, there are similarities, using a safe word in sub play is much like tapping out in MA, but the psychological drives are totally different. Even training with a female partner pushes none of the buttons a consensual session with a partner does, the scenario and ambience are all wrong and any such reaction would be inappropriate to say the least. The changes to my fitness through MA and my previous military training have made me a more able player in my other life though. And MA is a good cover story for the odd bruise that may show up though.
I think there is a sharp distinction between people who do martial arts and crave to be hit and those, like myself, who realise getting hit is simply something you have to tolerate in effective training. If you are talking about sadism and masochism in private life then my personal opinion is the same as J.S.Mill: "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrent". Basically do what you like as long as it doesn't interfere with me.
That is supposedly what happened to Adolf Hitler - though the account is exceedingly unreliable. According o guys like Wilhelm Reich Fascism was effecively a vessel to allow Hitler to carry out his bizzare fantasies.
Hitler would be a prime example of someone having disgustingly sadistic tendencies and the power to carry them out on a genocidal level. The man was sick in the head, but I don't think there's much to warrant him getting sexual pleasure from what he did. Perhaps there was an emotional satisfaction to be gained, but nothing sexual. Now, Dr. Mengele.... that may be an entirely different case all together.
I figured it out. Rockers are masochistic because they harm and kill themselves, while rappers are sadistic because they shoot and kill each other. You said women tend to be masochistic, which explains the long hair of rockers, and the short hair of the sadistic rappers.
It is also theorised that AH had Asperger's syndrome which meant he did not sympatise with other people and was totaly not interested in anything that did not go his way and he did not care what happened to the Jews so long as they ceased to exist, he did not care whetehr they suffered or not, he just wanted them efficiently wiped of the face of the earth. Hitler was also a National Socialist not a Fascist there are fundamental differences in there political philosophy (though both are for scumbags). I also get p'd off with Nazi style imagery in S & M and have refused to play on a date because someone has produced some in a scene. I think it just a lazy and dated image that some peopel ahve come to associate with sadism.
im sorry adouglasmhor, i think you may have miss understood what i was trying to say, there is a destinction made between emotional satisfaction and sexual gratification, and whul you are right, on the surface the may seem to be a conection between martial arts and ...other situations, but in reality thay are not comparable. That is not to say that pain experienced in martial arts can be enjoyable in a none sexual way. i forget what point i was trying to make, but i know there was one hopefully its hidden in there somwhere.
