Rolling w/ Jerks

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by flashlock, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    I like most of the people in my club, but there are 2 individuals I don't ever want to roll with again.

    The first one is a nice guy, but he's a big lug whitebelt (2 stripes) and he doesn't seem to know his own strength. He cranked my neck putting on an arm bar. Most recently, he injured my instructor's knee, put him in a brace. (My coach was crushing him with gentle moves, the white belt got frustrated, and when they were about to start, rushed him and hit his knee on a takedown).

    The other guy, another white belt (see pattern here?) constantly gives me advice and tells me how I am not doing this or that right. And everytime I get an advantage, he's says it's because we're "near the wall" and he couldn't move. He goes for small joint manipulation, grabs my fingers and bends them back when he can. I don't like him, he doesn't respect me as a training partner.

    So, what do you do? During training we have to switch partners. I've decided I am not going to roll with these guys. Fake that I'm too tired or have a cramp or just be honest and tell them I don't want to roll with them? Anyone else encounter this?

    (Again, this is 2 out of 30 guys... no problems with anyone else!)
  2. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    Don't fake injury, tell them that you don't want to roll with them and why. I know all about jerk partners and usually got picked first by them. I also usually enjoyed the horror on their faces when they realized they have been outclassed and tapped out by a female.
  3. Lily

    Lily Valued Member

    flashlock - with the first guy, just have a quick talk to him before class starts, he sounds like a valuable training partner if he learns to curb his strength initially and work his technique. Tell him straight out (and in a nice way) that you come to train and don't want to get injured for no reason.

    The second guy - saying 'you don't like him' and that 'he doesn't respect you' are cop outs.

    First tell him to a) shut up when you roll OR b) discuss technique after you roll and ignore anything he says while you roll. Plus tell him to stop bending your fingers back. Give him one warning and after that stop working with him or do the same thing to him.
  4. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Sounds to me like you've already come up with a solution, which is just don't roll with them. If they ask, be honest. Tell the first guy he needs to learn his strength (I've had people remind me of that, it shouldn't be a big deal). Remind the second that small joint manipulation is prohibited under BJJ rules... I've had to be reminded of that b/c of my Kung Fu experience. If neither can take constructive criticism, they both lost a rolling partner.
  5. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Good advice all.

    I'll be honest with them and give them another chance--then I just won't "play".

  6. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    In the case of the first guy, I think that because our instructor is 6'5" and 250 lbs, there's a real emphasis on technique over strength. He's constantly telling people that they're trying to learn BJJ technique, not to learn that they outweigh someone or are stronger than someone. I would suspect that he heard the same mantra for a few years at least early in his BJJ career. Considering that HIS instructor, Juliano Prado, is probably 5'6", I'm not surprised. :)

    Regarding the second guy, I'd try to cut him some slack. He sounds insecure. Work on your stuff and ignore the guy's commentary. If you get too close to a wall or the edge of the mat, break off yourself and reset close to the center of the mat in the same position. You don't have to start over from standing/kneeling. Do you? My suggestion being not to wait for him to use it as an excuse.

    Mainly, I wouldn't sweat it. These two guys don't sound all that bad. Be careful with the first guy, but overall, it doesn't sound like either is as bad as some.
  7. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Well, what distrubs me about the second guy, and I neglected this point in my initial post, is that he becomes very aggressive--I mean ugly, mean-spirited, thrashingly (is that a word?) aggressive.

    After he doled out a bunch of unsolicited advice, I made him tap out from a RNC. When we set up for the next position, his face was red and contorted, teeth bared (I'm not exagerrating) and he came at me with everything he had, like he had to prove something (we're both white belts!). I don't need that kind of thing, I want to have fun and get some exercise and learn some BJJ.

    He does indeed seem insecure, but one little mistake, and I've got a spranged arm or something... I don't trust the guy to have restraint. Also, I can take a lot, but if denegraded and pushed around, I reach a point and "unleash hell". Just don't want to get into it with him, not worth it.
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    yeah you're gonna get a strange mix in any MA... doesn't really matter the style. But you will definitely find some nutters in the lower grades in BJJ.

    The first guy just needs a talking to. Make some eye contact and tell him he's got to go lighter out there. Let him know it's not in anyone's best interest to get injured while training. Mention it to your instructor. Most instructors don't want injured students so he'll be more than willing to address the issue. Some guys are naturally strong and truly don't know their own strength - so it takes them some time to gain control over that when doing friendly rolling. Once these guys get that under control they're valuable rolling partners.

    As for the second guy... the whole small joint manipulation thing is way out of line. It's obvious that it's not legal in BJJ. If he's not up on that by now... someone should get that info to him in no uncertain terms... and that should be the instructor. Failing that for whatever reason... next time he goes for a small joint manip. then punch him in the nose. Make his eyes water and make him see a few stars and gently explain to him that your punch was also outside the rule set for BJJ - exactly like his small joint manip.. and that it's better for everyone is you both stay inside the ruleset.

    He'll feel like it was partially his idea and everything will be peachy. Works everytime.

    If you're worried about the guy being aggressive... there's not a whole lot you can do about that. But... the best route to take is to meet it with skill. When he charges in burning all that energy on aggression... maintain a good position and use sound technique to counter his gratuitous energy burning.

    You're stories remind me of some idiot we had that showed up to our BJJ class that thought eagle-claw techniques were free to use on the mat. He scratched everyone up.. I mean guys were walking around looking like a bald eagle had mistaken our class for a salmon spawning ground... :D (where do people get these stupid ideas?!?!) :eek:

    Until he got punched in the nose... bled all over the mat and was booted out of class. His father later called up and apologized and gave some weird explanation about his son (who was a grown adult btw!) having just come out of an institution. LOL! He never said what sort of institution... but my guess it that it was a psych ward. :D
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  9. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Great story, slip! The eagle claw! Too funny! :D

    Yeah, the first guy, just ask to go real easy... I'll roll with him again (though it's kinda hell on earth--even green belts talk about him as a real "challenge".)

    The second guy (Mr. Small Joint Manipulator), well, I don't want to complain like a sissy, and I don't want to have things reach the point of popping him one in the nose... but it might just have to happen if he continues.

    If we roll again, and he starts giving me "advice", I'm going to ask him to shut the hell up. If he pulls my fingers back, it's just going to be on and he'll regret it, I'm afraid.
  10. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    I use walls to my advantage all the time. It's not going to work in apply in a match, but I'm not too worried about it. I think I've only had one person do the "we're too close to the wall" thing. I think I said something like, "Don't worry, you won't hurt the wall."

    The first guy I'd probably just tell to take it easy. The second guy I'd tell to "cry me a river" although that probably wouldn't help the situation...
  11. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Our walls aren't padded, just brick, so you do have to be carefuly... but I know what you mean. I have "spider walked" up and down a wall with my chest on the opponent as I worked around to side control.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  12. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Yeah, if the walls are just brick, it's probably smart to be a bit more careful. On the other hand, if both people are already on the ground, you'd have to be rather unlucky to get hurt from a wall (I don't recall ever seeing it happen, but there are some people that I'm sure would manage to find a way). Standup is another story.
  13. alister

    alister Huh?

    Just be honest and don't roll with them. BJJ, especially in training is not all win win win - no one learns anything from that.

    Rolling should be gentle, focussing on movement and technique.

    Anyone who brings it on strong in my club usually ends up rolling with the blue belts and purple belts until they realise that they need to calm down! :D
  14. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    ahhh well put.

    And yes rolling with blues and purples usually sorts out the whole tough guy thing rather fast. :D
  15. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Every school (not just BJJ) has some variation on these types of students - you've been in MA for a while, surely you must have encountered them before, just think to what you did back then.

    You say he's a nice guy, I'm sure if you tell him to be more aware of his strength, that he will acquiesce quickly.

    Ah the beginner who assumes the role of assistant instructor. If I had to guess, I'd say he's coming off another style, probably had a fancy belt, comes in there as a noobie and thinks he's can keep the same experienced attitude he had in his other training.

    That or he's just a douche. Either way, just pwn him. When he's doing small joint stuff - you know what he's going for, if he's resorting to that it means he doesn't know what else to do, and he's probably giving you some openings. Sometimes the only way to get someone to be humble is to pwn them.

    Have fun...
  16. RandomTriangle

    RandomTriangle Valued Member

  17. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    I can see how that would worry you. If you really are worried about injury and get into a situation where you HAVE to roll with him, if hes at about the same level as you or better, just play really defensively. It's easy to stall until time is up. Just don't give him anything and wait for it to be over. If hes being really aggressive and your playing tight and defensive he'll probably get tired quickly anyway.

    Unless of course you can just totally school him without worry of getting caught by anything yourself.
  18. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Thanks for the advice. I own him in side control, but it's not a good time for me in othe positions, I admit.

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