Right,come on fellow women....

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Su lin, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Flash Bang Run

    FLASH Attack the eyes or the throat to disorient him and get his hands rising. BANG to the groin and run.

    Regards koyo
  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    i thought you were talking about flash bangs for a second. im no expert in the history of agttacks against woman but im going to assume most would grab you from behind, at least i would (hey, thinking like an attacker works is all im saying) so wouldn't the throat be a hard target? I'd also assume they would trap the arms. I like your idea but the only thing i can think of in that scenario would be a heel to the groin and maybe a back headbutt. I knew there was a reason woman are obsessed with heels.
  3. Rhea

    Rhea Laser tag = NOT MA... Supporter

    Heels or good strong boots = great.
  4. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    one truth ive always had brought up in aikido and wing chun is that men fight for ego women fight for their lives

    we if we had to fight it would be out of protection for ourselves or our friends

    so i think it is important that when we learn self defense we learn how we can apply it in those horrible situations.

    both my sifu and sensai teach me ways i can fight for my life one being using my fingers in wing chun to strike them in the eyes as apposed to jabbing them.

    another being a great little technique in aikido where this is the situation:

    a big drunken man comes over to you at the bar and puts his arm round you,
    you warn him off a few times but he still doesnt get off you,

    so you grab his hand spin his palm round and duck out of it putting him into sankyo, if done coreectly theres no way he can get out of that, then if he pi*ses you off even more you just point your wrist in the direction you want his head to go... and slam it hits the bar :p

    never had that problem but im pretty confident id remember to pull it off if it did!

  5. SB1970

    SB1970 Valued Member

    *just want to point out that below is only my opinion from what I have seen, and there are better people to advise than me,I just want to add to some great points already made*
    for me I think aikido is one art where a woman can have control over a aggresive man more often than not-let me explain
    I'm a 17 stone bloke-5ft 8inchs tall little over weight and 38 years old
    I'm very strong and built like a small tank-I've been punched square in the face,glassed and bottled before and stayed standing
    HOWEVER-the small joint locks of aikido-finger wrist and elbow will have me screaming like a 2 year old in seconds.
    I used to help out on the Doors at clubs many years ago with a few smaller blokes than me and a couple of girls as well and have seen the kick to nuts(a standard move) NOT work-drugs,beer and adrenalin must have kicked in,but locked finger joints,wrists and elbow can produce SO much pain in a controled manner!,and if aplied by somebody trained can finish an attack in seconds
    Ladies mostly are smaller lighter slimmer and faster than blokes and in my eyes I would like them to train using these natural advatages ie a swift kick to the knees and then a small joint lock-ofcourse running is always the best answer but sometimes it can be too late for that.To be honest i would like self defence taught to girls in school as a matter of course-I mean you are taught to swim just in case to fall in water,why not self defence in case of attack??? just a thought
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  6. Spinmaster

    Spinmaster Valued Member

    This is quite an over generalization. Men and women are all individuals, and as such it is up to the individual to decide why he/she will do something (in this case, fight). It may be that there are more men that enjoy fighting than there are women, simply because it's in the male instincts to be the warrior, the protector of the family, etc.
    I know plenty of men who don't fight for their egos, and there are quite a few guys out there who have had to fight for their lives. And I can say for certain that there's no shortage of egotistical women out there.* :mad:

    *No offense to women in general (and no insult to aiki-laurie intended).
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
  7. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    How many here have ever been through a self-defense program sanctioned through local or national law enforcement agencies?

    Martial arts is probably the last thing that is brought up. The main focus is on understanding the local laws and understanding what it is like to be in a hostile environment. This is to build up awareness skills and gain experience in real situations. For instance, training might include the proper procedures followed by police so that you not only know what to expect from police but also to know your legal options and even to learn how to identify predators that are pretending to be police but are really criminals. Information will be about real threats going on in the community, such as recent robberies and assaults, what is really going on in the real world.

    To open the eyes...


    How many here have been involved in a situation where you fear for your life? How many have consulted law enforcement "off the record" in what to do when you are alone and afraid for your life?

    You probably have gotten advice like, "get a weapon."

    To gain the confidence not to live in fear and to have a means to fight back effectively...


    To apply martial arts to self-defense in a practical manner, you need to know what you are getting into. Instead of learning self-defense in martial arts, you first need to learn what self-defense is outside of martial arts, and then bring that experience into your training.

    The experience you gain in the real world is what makes your martial arts more effective.

    We had one kickboxer that was assaulted in a public place. She punched and kicked the guy out with three hits. No fighting stance, no ring, but just in an instant she exploded and took him out.

    Be a "streetfighter" with the skill and knowledge of a martial artist. Don't be a martial artist trying to be a street fighter... wrong way, IMHO.
  8. SB1970

    SB1970 Valued Member

    your totally correct,train not to get a situation in the first place,instead of geting into one in the first place and then training to defend yourself-this SOOOOO easy to say tapping away at a computer,but still in a perfect world........
    but this world is not perfect by any means and girls are doing what they can-and should be applauded for it
    just makes me mad that there are alot of classes that say"we can train you to defend yourself" then go though the actions but don't train with any reality-talk about false sense of security(for both men and women!!)
    we all know one of the big problems with that-when you walk off the street having never trained in M/A your only option(unless you have friends who know what they are talking about) is to trust the teacher and belive in the training you recive-harsh lesson learned possibly???
  9. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    no offense taken mate! maybe i was being much to literate ofc everyone has their own reasons why they train there are some men who are quite spiritual :) yet theres some women (like me 2) who wants to be the protector of herself, family friends and wants to be the warrior. :)

    but warrior or not i hope i will never get put in that situation!

    and as above i would recommend aikido as a self defense technique for women! shame I'm the only one in my classes :(
  10. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Hey aiki-laurie,

    What aspects of your Aikido training do you feel benefit your goals the most?

    And while on the subject of Aikido, someone mentioned the use of Sankyo, how you feel about using Sankyo on someone much stronger and bigger than you for instance?
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Sankyo on the little finger....ooooch!
    If grabbed from behind and arms wrapped to your side..grab the testicles then turn,,throat groin and run.
    Still best to train in awareness to avoid fighting.

    regards koyo
  12. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    well the main aspect being that you dont have to be strong to protect yourself and using others strength against them. being a short woman i find it very easy to break tall peoples posture, my other half is 6 foot tall and big built and i figure if i can throw him around the room i got a good chance outside too!

    i do have the problem of some people being too strong for me so im training harder to overcome this!

    but sankyo is one of my favourite techniques because i can pull it off pretty well, as well as kote gaeshi i love bouncing them round straight into the pin :D happens before they know it lol!

    i do a mean shiho nage too but thats because im short hehe :p

    i dunno how i would react outside with it, i would get scared and when the fear runs through ur body im guessing suddenly everything you get taught goes out of your head!

    so im learning wing chun to react quickly to situations and to loose the fear of getting a punch to the face!
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Thanks for the reply aiki-laurie.

    I was curious about Sankyo because in my opinion it is one of those techniques that does not tend to work well on larger and stronger opponents. The hole in the technique comes if the opponent is able to pick you up off the ground, which is more likely the stronger and bigger the opponent is relative to you. I'm not saying that I would not use Sankyo on a bigger person if the opportunity was good, but I would not consider it my best choice to subjugate them. It could be used in other ways, such as a transition to something better and as a variation such as Koyo's Sankyo on the little finger.

    Conversely, I have found that Ikkyo and Iriminage (and variations of these) tend to work well on larger and stronger opponents. kote gaeshi and Nikkyo are also ones that I have found can work well IF the opponent grabs on to me in a way I can leverage my body mass to apply the technique, but if they do not grab on to me, it is harder to apply these on bigger people. I have also found that the pin to kote gaeshi also works well on many bigger and stronger people.

    The message here is not what to do... but more what not to do.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2008
  14. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Fighting animals

    Okay here is a general question for the women mainly but anyone can answer.

    How do you feel about fighting animals and how do you prepare for it?

    This is not intended to be a trick question. What I mean is that at a very basic level, although we are all human beings, we are all animals too. I've used the term "street fighter" before and what I mean by a street fighter is actually a person that is more in touch with their animalistic combat instincts.

    An person described as an animal in combat tends to be very linear in thinking, e.g. to for the throat or run away, etc. But they can surprise people by being much stronger than you expect them to be. They do not seem to by affected as much by pain and injury, and like a dog on a bone, they can by ferocious in their determination.

    How much of this is seen in martial arts training? Not a whole lot. Martial artists may try to tap into their animal ways, but training is often in more the control of their animal ways instead of the unleashing of it. Martial artists like to try to control the chaos, like to have order in life.

    Now I may be so bold to say that an animal will tear apart most martial artists. The only advantages a skilled and experienced martial artist might have over the animal is that an animal probably doesn't really know what they are doing, will act more in the moment and won't as well see what is coming next so they won't plan ahead as well. But this advantage does no good if you don't live long enough to be around for the "what happens next".

    Now again, I'm not saying people are animals, only that they are like animals.

    Every aspect of martial arts is built on animal instincts at the core. For combat aspects, look even at arts such as Aikido and how it addresses animal instincts. The posture is always with the ability to attack forward, the head high for vision and dominance... it is a deterrent of impending danger to anyone intending to attack the Aikidoka. On the other hand, there is also with this the aspect of submission, as they say, "make the enemy smile" and their will to attack will fade.

    These are based on swordmanship principles... but what I'm saying is they come from the reality of animal instincts.

    In you martial training... what does the animal in you and others mean?
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2008
  15. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    ikkyo i wouldnt have a hope in hell of pulling off outside. although its the 1st Principle its also the one i never get right! for some reason i find it really hard especially if they have a lot of strength! i dont think its that hard 2 pull sankyo on a bigger stronger person, well i've never had any trouble anyway as i work with a load of them lol! i dont think it would be that easy to pick someone off te ground no matter how small and light if they have good posture and ground themselves properly. but thats my opinion!
    i find shiho nage to be very effective too it seems to be one im good at with being short lol!

    kote gaeshi i find really effective too! i suppose it depends on the timing situation and person, as you never know what they're going to do so saying how you would react is impossible really! and i don't think i'm at a high enough level to be able to use it in a bad situation. i've never been in that situation thank god! and hopefully never will be :)
  16. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    i dont think im that advanced to make much of an answer to your question,
    i still defend with mind body and spirit, the more i relax and obtain my posture the easier it is for me to achieve, so i don't get such an animal feel to it really, i'm still learning and developing my skills and even still growing my confidence! i think aikido takes years of training for it to become second nature, and once i've grasped it as best i can or at least get to shodan i wil unleash my animal when i start training bujinkan.. but 1st i want to achieve in the already 3 MA's i train lol!
  17. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Try Ikkyo first without tenkan or irimi, just stand right to the side of uke, drop straight down (e.g. drop your whole body weight down, not to the side or any other direction), apply Ikkyo... you likely will have to end up in a wider base (feet further apart) if they are a lot heavier than you. If you get further resistance, sweep they leg out. If you can get this, then applying Ikkyo from irimi or tenkan will follow the same principles but you have to adjust for the movement of uke, might even be easier.

    You should have some of your training partners try it on you. It might be that it isn't going to work well on you, but I have seen more than once a stronger person simply pick up a smaller person trying to apply sankyo on them, and I don't mean beginners, some very high up belts.

    I remember one instructor of mine throwing me in in kote gaeshi off of one of my punches, so quick that I was on the ground before I knew what happened. He also taught me a counter to kote gaeshi so I could avoid that but then he had a counter to the counter... all too funny.
  18. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Thanks for the reply... if you don't mind, what about dealing with the animal in others?

    The reason I bring this up is somewhat to do with the theory that past experiences can traumatize someone into reliving those experiences in similar situations. I used to train a lot with an all womens martial arts school, they're are our sister school in Kajukenbo... just haven't had the time lately. Anyway, they would have open sparring sessions and everyone would come down to the school from different schools and we would spar and roll (men and women). I don't know how many, but at least several of the women at the school were training in martial arts to help get over some bad things that happened to them when they were younger.

    Well I'm always trying to push them to the edge of their comfort level and give them a good challenge. Beginners might end up going lighter on, people I knew more that had been training a long time we would really go at it, sometimes I would get my backside handed to me. Anyway, it was always with good intentions and respect.

    Well it comes to training and we are working more self-defense so I am working with one woman martial artist I had known for probably five years or more. She wants me to work the technique with her, I immediately go into "kill mode" and pin her down so she can't move. The combination of my attitude change and the fact she felt totally helpless cause her to freeze up... something from a bad experience in the past. Instead of fighting back she panicked.

    We stopped and she took a breather. Something triggered her panic attack... we can laugh about it later, but it wasn't something that felt good at the time for either of us.

    This is why I ask about preparing for dealing with the animal side of people in martial arts.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2008
  19. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    i know how to do it im just not very good at it and when i cut through their posture sometimes they can lean forward and it will have no effect, or their so tall im putting my arm up to far which messes my balance up.
    and wouldnt sweeping their leg out kinda take away the whole point of ikkyo?
    oh and my partner made a good point of using aihanmi katatori ikkyo, i seem to be ok with that! and brings them down to my level! so that would be effective!
    forgot that 1 (and its 5th kyu lol >.<)

    will have a go 2morro night ^^

    haha brilliant! yea i flick on the kote gaeshi when someone spins out of shiho nage :p works most of the time lol!
  20. aiki-laurie

    aiki-laurie New Member

    oh no! bet that was a guilty moment, although i think its good 2 train like that in some ways because its training with what could really happen outside! and tests how you would react.

    i find it hard to conquer fear though im slowly getting through this fear in wing chun and (well it used to be the case with break falling in aikido too)
    and we do lots of exercises that would help with your reactions and working on speed and fitness and i find this very useful! when i'm advanced i would probably combine the two if faced with danger!

    i still dont seem to be that good at answering your question..

    the only aggression i had against me in my life was my ex bf but i always fought back lol!

    oooo i may have some relation to animal instinct and your gonna think im sad now!

    but my star sign is scorpio, and im strong in my personality where i wil not let anyone overpower me if i can help it and i will always get back up.

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