Rickson recent statement

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Dead_pool, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    There are those exceptions on the CRB check for those that haven't been convicted, but I believe having that in place for all clubs with children (martial arts or not) send a clear signal that the school/club is on the ball for such behaviour, and this would at least deter any who are inclined that way.

    There are other checks that can be done, but they are a lot more costly and harder to administer.
    At the very least a CRB, and a club contract for teachers with a specific policy for child protection should be a requirement.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  2. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    You mean some sort of contract, that a teacher signs within a club, before he teaches kids?
    Not trying to be dumb here, just getting sure that it's not something else I haven't heard about and therefore don't know the terms.

    In theory that sounds good, but I see the same problem as with other crimes: There are laws, and yet people steal.
    Now, if a pedophile (well, one of these who would actually do something like abuse) were trying to get into a position with some club (I agree, btw, not MA only that should be a subject, of course), he would just sign that thing and there's that. It's not like he would say: "Oh, wait, can't sign that, I want to molest the children."

    That said, I do know that some clubs here apparently have a contract like that, given by the association they belong too.
    I think it's like... hard to find words for it... a good an important sign, because the club shows, that it won't have anything like that. But in the end, it's just a piece of paper that says, what every healthy/ normal/ what you want to call it person finds despicable anyway.

    Not trying to be mean or a smartass here, sorry, I leave that image.

    Since I wrote a bit with the former victim I mention, or more accurate: Read a lot, of what he wrote, I get the picture, that there really isn't too much to prevent things like that due to rules or laws :(
    I'm afraid it's far more necessary, to have eyes and ears open at all times, or at the very least, as soon as somethings seems fishy.
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I think it's more to ensure that a standard child protection policy is put in place, not that everyone agrees to not to be a paedophile.
    axelb likes this.
  4. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I worded it horribly, but that's pretty much what I meant.

    But it's mainly a sign to potential students, or, better their parents.
    As it's only a piece of paper with a signature in the end.

    Don't get me wrong, please - I *do not* want to talk any ideas down.
    I also do think they set a bit of a sign.
    They're just not the magical cure some people (I don't mean anyone here; it's more general) like to make them.

    But - and here I talk from hearsay more or less - apparently that made some club owners/ trainers shove away any responsibility, because they were like: "Hey, we made him/ her sign a code of conduct. With that our work was done."
    And therefore they didn't keep eyes and ears open, when rumors came their way.

    Again: *No persoanl experience* with that, luckily.
    I have one (or two) case(s) of sexual abuse in the family, but it wasn't done by a trainer/ coach.

    I heard from a situation similar to the one above via the formerly mentioned victim.
    axelb likes this.
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    IIRCi t generally means that complaints get taken seriously, and situations that could be taken advantage of by an abuser are avoided, I e. People are never alone with kids, parameters are welcome to watch class etc.
    axelb likes this.
  6. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I've had to unfortunately deal with scenarios before in a club.

    If there is a contract and CRB check in place, it won't eliminate all chances, but it reduces significantly.

    In addition, a contract gives the club a solid ground to understand what is happening and action quicker, which would prevent the behaviour exacerbating.

    Too often in the past many instructors and high level students didn't know what was happening despite seeing certain behaviour, later when it was too late it became apparent that prevention could have been dealt with quicker with such contracts/policy in place, rather than it being "gossip" between instructors.

    It is acceptable for a lot of general interaction with children in a physical activity, but there are certain behaviours that should be highlighted as unacceptable, or an indication of something else happening.
  7. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I have to ask here, sorry, since I'm not sure we're talking about that same.

    I was under the impression it is something to sign, where you essentially (even though better worded) say: "I agree not do..." (doesn't have to be molesting thing; can just as well be about not stealing stuff, that was left in the locker or whatever).
    Which, yes, will show "we're watching" and all that.

    But I'm confused now, as how that would give a "solid ground to understand what is happening"; therefore that sounds like you are talking about something else.
    Like further education regarding sexual harassment?

    Sorry, if I'm being dumb.
    And especially sorry, that you have first one hand knowledge of it has happened!
  8. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    The instructors at my school get background checked. And, as I have mentioned before, there is a strict "no fraternization" policy regarding students of all ages and instructors. Not sure if they sign a paper, but it is well known to instructors, and any student with half a clue, what is allowed or not. Huh, I am going to have to ask if they actually sign a document about that or not.

    As stated here, this offender would have passed a background check though. The issue is the toleration of unacceptable behavior from the top of that organization. The culture of what was allowed. Gracie and the others KNEW of the conviction and made a choice to let him keep teaching in that organization anyways. Only when other top instructors in the organization called it out, said it was unacceptable, then Gracie and the others were pressured into not accepting the behavior. It really has a lot to do with the culture of the organization.

    No, a piece of paper or a policy won't stop everyone, but it does set a clear cut standard of what the culture of the school is with regards to what is acceptable or not.
  9. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Yes something to sign, which should include requirement to attend certain courses about working with children.

    I don't expect every instructor to have detailed knowledge, but certainly think having items written in a contract to be signed would help.
    Example (from indirect experience of incident) the instructor should not travel alone with a minor, or train alone.

    Sure there may be perpetrator has intent, and still do this, but if it is written in contract then it highlights this, and others who may know if this would have reason to bring it to attention.

    It's awful when you come across such an incident, worse for the victim, bad for everyone else, and it hurts even more when the silent then pipe up about it either happening to them, or knowing about certain times which indicated behaviour of it.

    It may put off innocent instructors who are good at what they do, but for children (under 16) classes their protection is key.

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