RHEE Tae Kwon Do

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Xio, May 16, 2004.

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  1. Handsup

    Handsup New Member

    I Do Rhee Tkd

    Hey all, I do RHEE TKD.....just recently joined infact, its been 3 weeks.

    I dont think its a separate tkd style altogether.....i know its traditional though. And its a non competitive organisation-meaning they dont compete in tournaments.

    so ye......not sure if its a a new STYLE altogehter......
     
  2. matt flint

    matt flint New Member

    hell does it matter

    hi all can i say does it really matter tkd is tkd in over 16 years of training not noticed much difference except that some like grandmaster cho apply teachings as if it was combat snapping kicks and punches quicker to cover etc. and some teach the more traditional art pausing slightly longer . hell i know what im driving at . if you enjoy what you do and it works dont worry . you will soon know whats good and whats not.
     
  3. Wushijima

    Wushijima New Member

    Rhee Taekwondo.

    I've been reading with some considerable interest the different threads on RTKD, McDojos, and where the surname "Rhee" fits into the scheme of things.

    As a former member of RTKD NZ I know a few things and can say that somebody in the organisation once told me that Mr Chong Chul Rhee was related to Mr Jhoon Rhee somehow. Whether this is true or flase I cannot say.

    I can say for sure that RTKD is not as large as it was in NZ. Once boasting a dozen or more Dojangs across the North Island of NZ it now only exists in a somewhat diminished form in one area.

    When two senior members of RTKD in Queensland started South Pacific TKD and Pacific International TKD respectively, ending their association with Mr Rhee (politics again I guess) several clubs in NZ also left RTKD to join them.

    Other branches have affilitated to ITF or just closed down for reasons best know to themselves.

    It is a fact that RTKD doesn't really exist in the sense that many other Martial arts exist (ITF or WTF are both global organisations) but consists of an Al Qaeda style network of loosely affiliated cells which (ostensibly) share the same goals. Therefore when a branch closes or RTKD ceases to exist in a region or town, I believe there is no set protocol for ensuring the preservation of records regarding former members.

    The way in which we were run where I trained meant there was active discouragement from above NOT to train outside of our area with other RTKD clubs. Therefore, there was little cohesion and no solidarity between different regions. I don't know what the reasons for this were, but the fact remains that if one doesn't move around a bit from time to time to check out what others are doing, you do get rather stale (9 years of RTKD taught me that if nothing else.) It's also a pain when so and so says "We're moving to so and so and is there a RTKD club there" to which I had to answer "Yes, but I don't know where they train, when or what the name of the instructor is."

    With regards to RTKD being a separate style I can set the record straight on a number of things.

    1. RTKD is fundamentally ITF.

    2. Chong Chul Rhee was one of a number of instructors who trained under Gen Choi and was sent to Australia to spread the word. Whether his arrival in Australia predates the arrival of WTF styles in the South Pacific I cannot say.

    3. If you check out the ITFNZ website, there is a page which has been compiled as a homage to the "original masters" and has several old photos of many of the recognised ITF missionaries including Chong Chul Rhee and one of his two brothers, Chong Hyup Rhee.

    4. For whatever reasons, Mr Rhee decided to end his political affiliation with ITF in the seventies sometime, and branded his empire Rhee Taekwondo.

    5. Rhee Taekwondo followed a basic ITF structure, and in many repsects is more like ITF was. ITF itself has changed somewhat. RTKD still wears the old karate style jackets instead of the zip up variety currently in vogue in ITF, and has a brown belt for 2nd Kup as opposed to the Red Belt of most other TKD. I was told by a friend of mine who does ITF that the Brown belt was the standard in ITF in the early days.

    6. Rhee Taekwondo has a marginally stronger punching emphasis than most other TKD styles. The emphasis is probably more like 30% hands to 70% feet wheras most TKD are over 80% feet.

    7. The stances in RTKD are more Japanese that in other TKD and RTKD rejects the sine wave movement from stance to stance which dominated so much TKD.

    8. When you read a copy of the now very rare book Tae Kwon Do by Gen Choi Hong Hi. published circa 1973 The uniforms and the way in which nearly everything is performed looks less like current ITF and more the way RTKD does it.

    9. If you reject the whole notion that Tae Kwon Do is a development of Tae Kyon like I do, this makes sense. In early video images of TKD being practised, the whole system looks very japanese. This points to the idea that during the japanese occupation many karate schools were established. When the japanese pulled out, the schools were rebranded with Korean names such as Chung Do Kwan, Moo Duk Kwan, Ji Do Kwan etc and eventually standardised a system of forms and techniques strongly moulded on the Shotokan template before 90% entered into an alliance which was collectively known as Tae Kwon Do. The remaining schools which didn't are I suspect now known as Tang Soo Do or similar.

    As time went by and TKD spread, the pressure was on to make the art look less like Shotokan and so the various changes were made to the uniforms and the techniques. If you then consider that RTKD withdrew from the mainstream of ITF before a lot of these changes were made, it makes perfect sense that the techniques are going to resemble Karate more than modern WTF.

    10. The notion of RTKD as a McDojo is one that I have heard many of my former colleages from my days in RTKD advocate. Indeed when you have a system where the pressure is on to open new branches everywhere without thought for consolidating existing schools there could be said to exist a McDojo ethos. This was certainly my experience, and it meant that many people were pushed to instruct at classes when they were neither willing nor competent to do so.
     
  4. Wushijima

    Wushijima New Member

     
  5. rtkd

    rtkd Z-boyz

    This is false. The closest relationship they have is they trained together when early in there training.

    It has always been prodominantly australia which has the greater amounts of rtkd schools. It is unfortunate this has happened over in n.z. but the reasons for this could vary. Rhee instructors make little if no money so a major reason why instructors leave is to start earning more, which can be done if they own there own school.

    John ivanov is one of these instructors.And if you dont know this guys reputation then all i will say is his movement from rhee was totally money based and rank based. Having awarded himself 2 extra dans on commencement of his new school. But still advertised he was a Rheetkd instructor, which to the unknowing new student would see his rank and beleive Master Rhee had given him this. Unfortuneatly the lure of money and new ranks is a tempting thing for struggling instructors. And having the respect of training under a true Master is a dying thing.

    How can you compare RTKD with itf and wtf? and make the analogy with the Al Qaeda? RTKD is just 1 large school. ITF and WTF has thousands of seperately owned schools under there names. RTKD has never claimed to be a global org.

    You would be surprised but they actually do keep records of students. And you would remember the blue book( or grey ) passports which we are given when we first start. The membership no. is always recorded at each grading and with what grade you are at. We have had many ex rhee students come back and some have there books with them and some dont. But we have always found out where they were from and what grade they were and even if they left RTKD on bad terms when initially left.

    This is a problem which when i first started I noticed. But this is the instructors guttless way of teaching. Theres many reasons why they do this, all of them being wrong. The main reason is they are confident in there own teachings that they are worried that there students will find a new instrcutor who teaches better and will leave there gym to go train at the new one.
    All i can say is things have changed hugely. All instructors are encouraging there students to go a nd visit new gyms just as long as they still keep up there trainings at there own gym, and when travelling aust wide to take there uniform and contact the reg. instructor so they can train with them.

    It is the original itf before the current changes we see today.

    Master Rhee began teaching in aust in the mid 60's, dont quote me on this but didnt wtf form in 1973?

    Who know the exact reasons, but i have heard that General Choi wanted him to change with all the itf originals but refused to change what he had learnt (traditional tkd) to a more poplular tkd so it could compete against the ever growing WTF. So they parted ways. He could no longer call his school itf, so he called it after his last name.

     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  6. rtkd-badger

    rtkd-badger Fundimentaly Manipulated

    Whoa rtkd, my eyes hurt :D
    As rtkd has pointed out, we all have our passports which are signed off each time we grade and the grading result forms are kept by the instructors.

    I often train in different clubs, and we often have students from other clubs come and train with us. I have never seen it discouraged.

    I was told that a lot of the ITF masters, who had relations with South Korea were pressured by the South Korean government to discontinue their involvment with the General and the ITF, or have nothing to do with South Korea. Master Rhee didnt want to go the way of the WTF so he branched out on his own. From what I know there was no hard feelings between Master Rhee and General Choi.
    I believe Master Rhee and Steven Cheah started teaching in 1970 under the banner Australian TKD. This partnership ended in 1974.

    I can back this up as I am a student of one of these schools
     
  7. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    RTKD sounds not so secure. But I don't study it so I wouldn't know.
     
  8. rtkd-badger

    rtkd-badger Fundimentaly Manipulated

    It is very secure, large and still with many very dedicated and loyal students.
    We have one master and no politics.
    Yes, we do get the disgruntled student who thinks "I have trained for X amount of years but we are still only 1st or 2nd Dan" and leave to go onto what they believe is bigger and better things and a higher Dan rank.
    In my opinion this is a good thing, we don't need that type of infectious thinking.
     
  9. Wushijima

    Wushijima New Member

     
  10. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    Yeah, you sound right.

    Those disgruntled students are just impatient.

    Sounds pretty good.
     
  11. imonetwo

    imonetwo New Member

     
  12. rtkddevil

    rtkddevil Valued Member

    Please show some respect Wushijima (I am with you imonetwo). Why throw rocks at RHEE TKD that put you on your own personal path! Congrats to you if you have chosen a different path but why try to muddy a well trodden, strong and clear path for others.

    Wushijima = “My understanding from a guy who does ITF is that General Choi had little or no time for Mr Rhee after the split. I may be wrong because I heard it second hand. In any case it's all academic now”

    Of course General Choi had no time for Master Rhee or any of the original Master instructors because they were all forced to cut ties with Choi due to the episode of General Choi defected to Communist North Korea.

    I and thousands of Rhee TKD members thank Master Chong Chul Rhee for giving us the old school TKD style (as Japanese as it looks) and as such we are also fortunate not to have to wear the commercialised (ITF $ kick back) zip up jackets and do Hyungs to music while bouncing up and down wave style. We are also very thankful Master Rhee was a martial artist of his convictions and didn’t run down the competitions road like the ITF attempting to chase or challenge the massive popularity of the WTF and their newer sports style TKD (which I have respect for).

    Master Rhee is a hard man and does not suffer fools lightly. Maybe he would be more popular if he stayed with the ITF that he was the founding Australian President of even when the ITF went into exile in communist North Korea. Maybe if Master Rhee handed out 5 Dans to 30year olds (& receive $ kick backs from every ITF school in OZ that he signed off Dan certificates on) he would be very popular. Maybe if he had all RTKD members’ sign water tight fee’s contracts so he could pay RTKD Instructors salaries to buy their loyalty he would be more popular. But none of that is his way. Master Chong Chul Rhee, Master Chong Hyup Rhee and Master Chong Yoon Rhee would never sacrifice the ‘art” or “way” for popularity.

    Wushijima = “ When Mr Dicks split from RTKD in Brisbane and founded Pacific International, I believe there were some legal proceedings regarding his ownership of the name Rhee Taekwondo. But Mr Dicks had done his paperwork and homework, and thus he came out looking better than Mr Rhee. I can't speak for Ivanov. But Dicks is now affiliated to Mr Han Min Cho in the states. And since Han Min Kyo is the younger brother of the late Mr Han Ka Cho (creator of the Hwa-rang pattern) i'd guess that puts his TKD pedigree on a similar par with that of Mr Rhee.”

    You can’t speak for any of them - Dicks, Ivanov & Hicks all proved they are A type Queenslanders (“Brisvegas”)- in it to make TKD a big business not to keep TKD as an art. All 3 of them woke up the next day after resigning from RTKD and magically had an extra 2 or 3 Dans on their belts along with new grandiose titles. They then after the fact or act they had to go out and pay to associate themselves with another Master in another country to give themselves some credibility. There is no honour in that. It’s all so very sad.

    Wushijima = “I did give some thought to this. The Al Qaeda analogy”

    Master Chong Chul Rhee has given his life to the development of TKD in Australia and NZ. He has travelled 10 months out of 12 for over the last 37 years flying around Australia sacrificing his family life for his students and you have the gall to compare his life’s work to “Al Qaeda” – that is sickening and offensive (but I am sure you know that) !

    They say offence is the best defence. Wushijima you must have more than a few demons on your back to attack such a great man as Master Chong Chul Rhee.

    On a lighter note - I hope your All Blacks have better luck against the Springbok machine this weekend that our Wallabies did in our recent South African test matches.
     
  13. Wushijima

    Wushijima New Member

    Clearing the air (and muddying the waters.)

    Okay. In reply to imonetwo and rtkddevil I have a couple of things to say, so read carefully. Please take offence at the things I said to deliberately cause offense, and not the points I intended to make merely to point some fact out that people may not be aware of.

    1. The now infamous Al Qaeda analogy.

    I did not compare RTKD to Al Qaeda to suggest that the orgaisation had the same goal as Al Qaeda. Indeed I think RTKD's profile is just a little too warm and fuzzy to be challenging the hegemony of the USA and her allies by whatever means, however foul or fair.

    My analogy was intended ot work thus:

    Al Qaeda is NOT an organisation in the sense that the PLO, IRA or indeed any other guerilla army could be said to be an "organisation". It is a collection of isolated cells which, using whatever means it deems necessary, is committed to detroying the USA's hegemony in world politics. Some people in some parts of the world may believe in what they stand for and their somewhat radical agenda but I for one count myself as one of the many others WHO DOES NOT. Beyond the name Al Qaeda and the leadership of Osama Bin Laden, they lack central organisation or established lines of regular communication.

    Rhee Taekwondo is NOT an organisation in the sense that the ITF, WTF or indeed any other TKD federation could be said to be an "organisation". It is a collection of clubs organised in clusters which are committed to disseminating a more traditional form of TKD than that now practiced by the two major global TKD styles. Some people in some parts of the world may believe this is what they are about and assert that anything Mr Rhee says or does is right because he is an 8th Dan, Father of the Art in Australia etc but I for one count myself as one of the many others WHO DOES NOT. Beyond the name Rhee Taekwondo and the leadership of Chong Chul Rhee, they lack central organisation or established lines of regular communication.

    Does that make it a bit clearer? I only present this massively expanded version of it because I think it needs to be looked at in the context that I presented it and not as a slur on RTKD. There are much worse things I could say if I wanted which would send the acolytes of RTKD scampering under their beds to suck their thumbs for a fortnight or so? :bang: I do however, have some sense of decorum and discretion. Not much but some. :cool:

    2. I would argue thus: The fundamental difference in the mentality of somebody with a martial arts back ground and a martial sports background (I tend to sidestep the issue myself by using the terms "martial system" or "combat system") is that the sportsman does not tend to harbour as many noble illusions about the origins of what (s)he is doing. They do whatever the have to do to learn what they have to learn. This means if they get to a point where their ability has outstripped that of their teacher to teach them any more, then they have no qualms about finding a teacher who can.

    Martial artists however frequently subscribe to a shaolin temple mentality, where there is a single true thread which runs from ancient times to present day, and that their particular style and the teacher which teaches it needs justifying in terms of this mythological construct at all costs.
    Therefore: a student of a martial art, and especially an art which has little heirarchy beyond that which exists at a local level would arguably stunt their own progress because they refused to entertain the notion that they could ever surpass those who have gone before. There are clearly defined lines in the sand which say, "Thou shalt keep thy place even unto the death and refrain from seditious and impure thoughts towards honourable Grandmaster One Hung Low, glasshopper."

    In most martial sports (and even a great many of the "pure" martial arts such as Aikido), when students are at a certain level, they are encouraged to seek out others who may be able to help their progress, either within their own organisation or outside it. This could take the shape of an aikido student from a local club in some small town in Aussie or NZ going to train under a senior dan grade in Osaka on the recommendation. It could take the form of a member of a Judo club who is looking at breaking through into a higher level of compoetition having a go at JuJitsu, Sambo, Wrestling, or something or travelling to Japan or Eurpoe where the standard is that much higher.

    In RTKD, the notion that your club or regional instructor could possbily ever be outstripped by you is one which the organisation would never, ever allow you to entertain. The organisation is organised along the traditional paternalistic, heliocentric lines which states that the man at the top has been placed there by god. Would it not improve you skill in such a situation to train with the first dan up the road who maybe hasn't got the press but is stil a better instructor that your Mr Rhee awarded 3rd Dad Instructor? Even, (shock horror) :eek: train at the local ITF or Kyokushin club.

    If you say that the day after Dicks and Ivanov left RTKD they awarded themselves extra dan grades, then the sports man would ask "What did Mr Rhee do the day after he left ITF? Did he have a divine mandate to style himself as lord protector of tradional, non-competitive TKD?"

    No. he made that decision himself. As to whether he was a second, fourth or eighth dan when he left? Who knows? How many stripes was he awarded by Choi, and how many by himself?

    Indeed, take the debate further. Did somebody in Japan promote Choi Hong Hi to Ninth dan before he walked away and set himself up as the founder of this new martial art? I think not. Where was his loyalty to the shotokan instructors from whom he learned the basis of what was to become his system of Taekwondo. Or did he get a mystical revelation from the heavens? Would not he better to have not questioned their teachings and put the same effort into spreading Shotokan as he later did with TKD?

    After all, the ITF patterns and many of the basic exercises still owe more to Shotokan Karate than this rather mercurial concept which TKD traces it's descendence from called Tae Kyon.

    Simple. Taekwondo by Choi Hong Hi makes the statement that where an instructor ceases to be able to teach a student anything because that student's progress has outstripped his teachers, then that student must go to a teacher who can, and the instructor must let him. Choi himself shoots holes in the argument that loyalty to your teacher dictates that you follow him unquestioningly even to your own disadvantage. :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo:

    Kano never awarded himself a grade in Judo. He did I believe wear one of his Jujitsu grades from one of the classical schools. He was posthumously awarded 12th Dan by the Kodokan. He established a firm syllabus for the ascendance of people with the necessary qualities. History recognises Kano as the founder of Kodokan Judo, but makes no pretensions to him being a legendary martial artist in his own right as is the case with nearly any TKD "Master" ever written about. Such slots were reserved in the Judo history books for the likes of Mifune, Yamashita, Saigo, Tomita, Yokoyama and others who were able to master the system. The progress of these people is charted well in the history of Japanese martial arts, and at no time are they presented as the messengers of god on earth, with a right to say who can and can't do what.

    Where a man walks away from an established organisation he is in no position to be throwing stones at those who later do the same to him. He has created a precendent. Now do you accept him as a god given messenger of god's own truth. Should not Mr Rhee have just accepted that Choi and the heads of ITF knew what they was doing and continue under his banner, if indeed Choi did have the divine mandate. :Angel:

    Under the martial arts mentaility Mr Rhee may be seen as a last bastion of old school TKD and his position as such is unassailable because of......?

    Under the sporting mentality, he gets up in the morning and goes to the john like the rest of us.

    To concluse this rather long winded post:

    Respect for Mr Rhee? I show my respect for the man by exercising considerably more discretion that I could have. There is no point going into embarrassing details about stuff gone by.

    The fact remains that RTKD NZ has not decayed for the sole reason that all the instructors saw an opportunty to make some money and went to a school where they could make a million dollars and gain a 27th dan in five days. That is a demonising stereotype invented by RTKD instructors to frighten their children into undying loyalty to the man. It is as far from the truth as could be. My right to throw stones at RTKD is as valid as yours to throw them at Dicks and Ivanov (or anybody else your particular big brother tells you to).

    Why has RTKD deteriorated so much in NZ? If I told you, perhaps you might be more conservative in your defence of the man. :confused:

    But that WOULD be telling ;)
     
  14. rtkd

    rtkd Z-boyz

    im surprised you know so much about the internals and externals of Master Rhee and of how he runs his own school seeing that you were only in the org. for 9 yrs? Could it be that someone has been in your ear? Maybe a disgruntled ex member? Because you sure as hell didnt learn this stuff first hand. Heck, im pretty sure i could convince a kid that there maths teacher was an idiot who never went to college if you gave me enough time.

    Just quickly about a student passing the ability of there instructor.
    Do you really not think royce can learn anymore about gracie jj from Helio?
     
  15. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog www.myspace.com/elhig

    At this point I need to jump in and remind everyone of MAP's terms of service, which you all agreed to when joining the site.

    I have had to moderate this thread more than once in the past, and while I can understand that there is a deep loyalty to both sides of this discussion, I do not wish to have to further edit or lock this thread.

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  16. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog www.myspace.com/elhig

    At this point I need to jump in and remind everyone of MAP's terms of service, which you all agreed to when joining the site.

    I have had to moderate this thread more than once in the past, and while I can understand that there is a deep loyalty to both sides of this discussion, I do not wish to have to further edit or lock this thread.

    1.2 "Freedom of Speech":
    While we believe very much in freedom of speech & personal expression, you DO NOT have an absolute right to say whatever you want in this community.
    1.2.1 Anything that goes against our core beliefs and the purpose for which this community was designed may not be allowed.
    1.2.2 Posts and comments that are meant to incite conflicts between members or outside parties are strictly prohibited.
    1.2.3 MAP Administration has the absolute right to view, edit, modify, close or delete any content found in this community. This may include amongst other things the Private Message system in situations where we have concerns about the conduct of one of our members.

    4.3 Abuse / Flaming / Derogatory Comments:
    Abusive Comments, personal attacks, flaming, or derogatory insults or comments are strictly forbidden.
    4.3.1 It is fine to disagree with another member’s point of view, but please do so in a mature and civil manner.
    4.3.2 If someone posts to discuss their personal problems or seeks help from other forums members, please do not respond unless you have something positive or helpful to add.
    4.3.3 If you find yourself being flamed or insulted by another member, please do not dignify that person with a response. Notify a moderator and let us handle it

    4.5.2 Members that visit MAP only to participate in "conflict" threads or who incite others on other forums and websites to do so are not welcome here and their account may be temporarily suspended or permanently removed.
     
  17. rtkddevil

    rtkddevil Valued Member

    Hello Moderator, understand and I'm responding politely.

    Oh Wushijima Sensei, I’m sucking my thumb as I type this so please excuse if I misspell.

    Stories don’t ya luv em especially vicious tid bits with a bit of extra flare and added self-serving commentary aimed at character assassination. How exciting when revealed by a super secret double agent with volumes of top secret notes, who’s creditability is based on his claimed past association, typed word and ability to quote and mischievously interrupt Japanese martial arts history.

    Yes, Yes, Master Rhee is a hard man and he doesn’t suffer fools lightly, he can be harsh and severe. I too have seen this first hand and been on the receiving end more than once. However there is always a deeper reason than most know and in some cases you need to cut off a limb to save the body. Leaders lead, negotiators debate.

    Obviously your opinions are based on that of your past experience with the RTKD NZ organization and what your ITF friend has told you about RTKD Australia. NZ has always been a loose group and has been behind in most areas of development. How could you claim to know what the training regiment or sentiment of RTKD NT or WA or SA or VIC or TAS or even NSW is like, have you trained in those states. I have trained in most and have been welcomed with open arms and treated like a brother. I find in my travels most Regional Instructors seem to know each other on a first names basis. RTKD regional Instructors are not the be all and end all, all RTKD senior members understand this, however Regional Instructors do have the honour of extra responsibilities to Master Rhee and the organization due to their time involved in the art. The resident Regional Instructors in areas with decent populations are not always the highest Dan ranked or if they are then that Dan rank is shared with more than a few other senior Instructors.

    We train with kickboxers, Jujitsu, Muay Thai & Karate practitioners on a regular basis. We appreciate their input but know we have only one Master Instructor. Other martial artists have mountains of technique to learn from and we suck it all up, of course it is not applicable to our grading requirements but for our self defense applications, fitness and survival awareness it is critical.

    Yes we are very martial in our thinking we are not social philosophers - I’ll give you that – but that is what we want - the martial aspect to our training. When the “chups” are down we have the confidence to react as soldiers and not analysist's. But each to their own.

    As you used Kyokushin – Did Bobby Lowe leave Kyokushin when the great Mas Oyama died and the young Matsui took control of the Kyokushin Organization. Matsui is more than half Lowe's age with more than half his Karate experience and knowledge yet Lowe stayed true to his Masters wishes even in death following Oyama’s appointed Matsui, obviously in your mind this is out dated thinking as per your point 2 first two paragraphs of 05 Aug posting. However to traditional martial artists this is the greatest example of martial humility and true honour, something that is to be respected and admired. Sure the ego’s left the Kyokushin parent organization on Matsui’s appointment but the truly strong students of Kyokushin art stayed true eg: Lowe. As we RTKD students stay true to our Master Chong Chul Rhee and the art of Rhee TKD.

    For a man that has claimed to have moved on you seem to be well and truly walking backwards concentrating and watching those of us you protest are trapped in our stale martial thinking – yet we can see where we are going can you?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2005
  18. Wushijima

    Wushijima New Member

    Wushijima's last stand.

    A good standard of debate is something I admire. Thank you.

    I respect imonetwo, rtkd, rtkddevil and others for their loyalty.

    I note your points and unfortunately I must still beg to differ on many things.

    Any organisation has it's positives and negatives, this is a fact. RTKD, Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Rugby, Cricket, Soccer whatever. I think perhaps we all agree on this.

    People forget that I was part of the organisation for some time. A paltry nine years admittedly, but I think nine years still has to be a blip on somebody's radar. People forget that while I repsect your loyalty, much of the vitriol that is being thrown at me is laced with dogmatic preprogrammed responses to concerns people have expressed before me.

    I reject the notion that all people who have left RTKD are merely impatient at not getting moved up the ladder. I reject the notion that there are no politics in RTKD. But I am pushing the proverbial uphill in trying to convince peole of that. No worries. No hard feelings. Just a difference of opinion.

    There is much more I could say on the general topic of our differing mentalities, but I think it would probably result in the moderator stepping in. It might make a few people turn a darker shade of purple, but I don't think it would serve any purpose beyond getting people's backs up, and in spite of what you may think, that was not my intention.

    I will make this my last post. Simple reason, I don't want to risk a perfectly good thread being discontinued because of my incendiary remarks. MODERATOR PLEASE NOTE THIS.

    Consider this a win if you wish (RTKD 1 Wushijima 0)

    Final statement. Please read carefully. My DISCRETION, RESPECT, and some remaining modicum of LOYALTY prevent me you understand from going into too much detail in such a public forum:

    RTKD treated me very very well, I enjoyed a stretch of training which was most inspirational and carried me through some hard times and helped me enjoy thew good times more than I otherwise would. My issues arise from the way with the way in which many of my close friends from that time were treated. People who displayed as much loyalty and honour with regards to RTKD as I and under the touted RTKD ethos of being the family martial art deserved more respect than they were treated with. People who were and could still be a credit to RTKD if only they had been treated with the same respect that they showed. People who I would be proud to say continued on long after I left and went on to exemplify the art and what it (apparently) stands for.

    These people were shut out for no good reason and this angered me.
    Because "integrity" is one of TKD's central tenets and it is something that I learned from doing RTKD, and the lack of integrity shown towards them when that is all they ever showed feels like nothing so much as a betrayal of a trust we invested in a man called Mr Rhee and the orgainisation he founded.

    Fare thee well. Enjoy your training. God bless. Over and out. :)
     
  19. rtkddevil

    rtkddevil Valued Member

    Wushijima Sensei

    The only reason I registered and typed was your Al Qaeda comparison. In this current world climate that statement was evil and inflammatory (e.g. the reason for my page name and fiery tone of my response).

    Yes 9 years isn’t long in RTKD and as you quoted "There are 3 sides to every story: yours, mine and the cold hard truth." Maybe you need to take off your blinkers and understand how that relates to you and your argument.

    No matter what your stories or view I am secure that the many years I have put into my RTKD training and of being a student of Master Chong Chul Rhee have been invaluable and extremely productive for me personally. I am eternally grateful to Master Rhee and the RTKD organization that have not only gifted me with solid physical skills but also invaluable life skills that have made my life very forfulling and successful in my professional endeavors.

    Master Chong Chul Rhee and Master Chong Hyup Rhee are great men and true old school martial leaders and I am honoured to follow them.

    I hope you find what you are looking for Wushijima & remember the saying “the grass is not always greener the other side of the fence” (as confirmed by many a x - RTKD member).

    Yes I agree to disagree and trust this is farewell. Sho.

    PS Go the All Blacks, the Springboks need to go down hard tonight.
     
  20. Dragoon72

    Dragoon72 New Member

    I had a friend who once trained under Master Chong Chul Rhee but he quit.
     
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