I would say none of that matters. What matters is practical application. Direct means that it is simple and direct for YOU. This does not matter the skill level or complexity, the fact is that a very skilled person can use more complex and effective technique, but the key is that they still "make it look easy." For technique to work: 1. One can force it to work 2. One can do something that causes a reaction in the enemy and use that reaction to feed the technique. 3. One can trick someone into giving you the technique. What kensei1984 is probably asking is how to develop what is simple and direct FOR HIM and progress from there. Yes there is much more to learn, maybe it will take him many years before he can make it practical enough to use it against someone that is much bigger and stronger than he is in real world (should he fail to avoid such a situation), but along the way each step is important both that it is simple for him to use at his level AND like planting a seed, it grows to maturity.
Hi joriki I was perhaps not a clear as I should have been. I mean UNBALANCING backwards to the side NOT throwing. Example a round srike coming at the head, enter triangulrly cut the strike down to the side and atemi to his head knocking it backwards. The technique can then thRow him "anywhere" as in shiho nage (all directions throw) Even ikkyo (arm pin)that certainly "throws" or pins him in a forward movement is (I have found) easier to apply if at musubi (contact) he is first unbalance backward to the side. Irrimi nage is often executed by pushing his head down any unbalancing forward tends to make him feel "heavy" If he is unbalanced backwards to the side and then spun around he is easier to control. I must emphasise that I personally find this more effective and do not propose that it is the only way. regards koyo Below it is clear that Charles is being drawn forward so that I may execute juji nage (under elbow control) and shall throw him forward his balance has his spine bent slightly backwards and to the side.This control negates his possible counter strke . It also creates a "spiraling" feeling to the ukemi making it difficult to counter.
How advanced does the footwork need to be to get from A to B? I personally prefer to keep technique simple and don't like to mess around.
:love: It is stange to look at yourself sometimes. I think, like everyone, your footwork improves with training, but maybe it takes someone else to notice it. What is simple for you today aikiwolfie, might have seemed complex to you twenty years ago. At least that is how I feel about the case with myself. I don't feel I'm unique or special in this observation.
Well that would be a great method and nothing wrong with that. However it has been thoerized that Osensei did study bagua, which is known for twists and turns and interesting footwork skills. Sometimes the road to A to B the straight line my not be as effective as other methods. I think that what Koyo is saying is very correct, however some kuzushi (as was noted can be done with the body or any part) sometimes cutting the attack down is not then best method as the kuzushi can be applied to increase the speed or force of the attackers limb/body. (exmaple kaiten nage - backward movement of a kuzushi might not be as effect as a forward and downward offbalancing movement.)
Hi joriki Indeed my approach to aikido is linear. I emphasise a major principle taught to me by a number of shihan, Saito shihan in particular who often stated that THE ATTACKER MUST BE MADE TO CIRCLE, SPIN OR SPIRAL AROUND THE AIKIDOKA NOT THE OPPOSITE. So I enter triangularly control circularly (cause the attacker to turn) and execute solidly. This is often taught as the principle of the triangle circle and square. The secret of aikido lies in the TRIANGLES is another kuden (important oral instruction) that influences my understanding. Rebel and Wolfie as for footwork.Do not get hit!! Use a triangular kamae. Move naturally. Joriki Kaiten nage his head is "tucked backwards his arm is projected over his "side" He is about to be thrown forward from my perspective the ukemi is backward to the side.I am sure that when you study your own techniques you may be surprised at how often this principle is being applied.
Hi joriki, Because of the turning of the body (spine), kaiten nage, still utilizes the backwards and to the side unbalancing. At least that is how I see it. I do see your point. When it comes to throwing someone, I tend to try to project the person in the direction that the majority of their mass is going. In other words, if the person's head has momentum in one direction when they are unbalanced (posture at the spine and hip broken), their body tends to follow, so throwing them in that direction is much easier. The way I'm thinking about this is that you take what you can to unbalance someone, but as technique is improved, some kuzushi will prove to be more effective than others because it will limit the other's ability to counter your movements. At some point, the other person isn't just going to go with the momentum but they are going to try to counter you. Shutting down their ability to do that is also part of application.
Geeze, I never saw that one coming :love: Are you a pool / billards player koyo? Best anology I've heard for foot work is that it is like playing 8 ball. You start out just trying to hit the ball in the hole (e.g. do not get hit principle), but maybe you do this and you end up with the next ball to hit sitting right behind the eight ball. Then you got no shot. The skill is in sinking the ball and setting up your next shots.
I understand where you are coming from. I think my view is slightly different. In that the center mass and the line of force of the attack is what is to be considered. Those aspects in relationship to you. I think the above what koyo has said is correct from that view point. from mine it is forward and down as that was the main direction of center mass of the uke and (possible - from munetsukie how i envisioned writing it) attacking line of motion. I think we are saying very similar things but from different views. My aikido style was very liner for a long time and has grown more circular over the years. I will also agree the triangulation is very important but so is the concept of the arc. I agree in most time you should not have the tori circle around the uke in technique but them circle the tori.
Thanks Rebel, a lot of it does, but I prefer zenkutsu over hanmi any day of the week for evading. It is impossible for me being top heavy to rely on a stance like hanmi, I get hit most of the time.
An anecdote for you. I had just explained to Sekiya shihan that my aikido had started off quite circular but now was more linear depending more on triangulsr entry. He said that this was quite correct. One of the attending instructors said but isn't aikido sircular? Sekiya anwered "Eventually the circles have no diameter. " Take from this what you will regards koyo Sekiya shihan master of aikido, katori shinto ryu and Kashima Shinto Ryu
From an atemi focused point of view, some of the hardest hitters for their body weight I've ever met came from "internal systems" based on the principles used in Tai Chi. Thirty to fifty years of training and I say they probably could hit harder than most that are twice their weight. Anyway, every one of them agreed that circles were oblong, and the MORE oblong the better. I can relate to that. Let me tell you a story that was told to me about this. In the early 1950s when karate competitions were catching on around the world, at the time karate had a reputation of being somewhat mystical in the west. If you knew karate then, you were thought to be a very bad ass. Like how Kung Fu fighters were thought of in the 1970s, and how MMA cage fighters are thought of today. Needless to say, it was very popular and was to get even more popular in the next decade or so. At this time in the 1950s, a lot of the focus for karate in Japan and other places was towards a more sportive environment. This was not to say that the non-sportive aspects weren't there, it is just that the sportive aspects were becoming more popular. As such, many of the competitors at the time were very good athletes. They would fight in what is called han zenkutsu dachi (shorter/half form of zenkutsu dachi used for fighting). In this stance, as you would already know, the hips are kept fairly square on to the opponent. These karateka were able to evade side-to-side very well through their agility and sheer athletic talent. They adopted a form of fighting known as "straight blast" where they would evade side to side and then blast straight in and overwhelm the opponent. One person known to be very agile like this was the late grandmaster Ed Parker, founder of American Kenpo among other things. Mr. Parker taught many students but there came a time when some of his best students still could not match the speed and agility he had. There came to a realization that not everyone was as naturally talented and athletic as he was. Many techniques based off of the "straight blast" concepts did not work for some students. Thus came the more triangular posture. The triangular posture means they presented a more sideways profile which made them a smaller target to hit. If you find things are coming in too fast, rather than speed things up, sometimes it is better to just make yourself a harder to hit target and force things to slow down, then when you move faster, it will seem lightening fast because it will be unexpected. Related to this, my preference of a triangular posture came many decades ago when a German Shepard tried to bite me. This dog went right for my groin, my body moved to evade but it was my turning more sideways that eventually saved my family jewels. The dog still bit through my coat and his teeth left a bruise for a week on part of my thigh from just the impact, but he did not break the skin. I was able to disengage back out of the dogs territory without being seriously injured. I would add that the dog's bite came in faster than I think most people can punch -- I would rate a dog's bite as one of the fastest attacks a regular person might ever encounter, IME. Remember that Aikido is a weapons art in that it is based on sword principles. Knives, swords, spears, etc. can be very fast, thus the triangular posture is recommended to reduce the chance of being hit. Edit: Of course a triangular posture makes it harder to evade side to side, so this may be what is going on with you preferring the more square posture of zenkutsu dachi. It is the principle of the triangle that is used, not a static stance. As koyo said, move the feet naturally.
Great post rebel I am glad you clarified that the german shepard was a dog!!Maybe we should change the first principle to. Don't get bit!!! regards koyo
So what if you "Kuzushi" someone by simply touching them? (No chi blasts please ) On the outside it looks like your not moving, but the person you're grasping or touching already feels like they're off balance. (You stand straight legged, feet shoulder width apart)
I am uncomfortable with standing "straight legged feet shoulder width apart" My kamae is always triangular offering the smaller target area. However kuzushi can be applied in two major manners. By driving the attacker into a weakpoint relative to his posture or by "stepping in" to a weakpoint in his posture and executing the unbalancing from there. Below I have entered into Derek's rear kuzushi with my left hip. Despite him being much stronger the tsuka ate (sword hilt strike) shall imbalance him backwards to the side.This is empowered by ki ken tai ichi demanding that my ki (spirit, intention) ken (sword or technique) tai (body movement and alignment) are executed ichi (as one).I would not give preferance to one of these elements over another. (emphasising body movement for example) They MUST act as one. regards koyo
On the subject of making a smaller target, that is true with the other stances, but it makes it real hard to defend with what I would prefer with zenkutsu. Zenkutsu "invites" an attack, which should be easier to respond to IF the person keeps prop distance. The three-quarter stance is a much better attack stance, but that is not to say you cannot attack with zenkutsu, its all individual.
Hi kensei My training is heavily influenced by sword principles therefor the kamae is sankaku ho triangular posture and movement in any direction is easier than from any other kamae. The sankaku ho is "sharpened to effect rapid entry when closing with an attacker. I have posted at length on sen timing elswhere but basically it means that we must assert control in general and over the centreline in particular.The post is on the martial arts of aikido training. We follow the principle that there are NO stances in aikido we MUST have constant mobility in all directions. We feel that Zenkutsu Dachi (stance) is vulnerable to the side., and to multiple attacks. You comments would be most welcome. regards koyo This the sword principle of debana pre-empting by suddenly striking as the attacker aproaches.
