Renzo mugging........

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Dead_pool, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    by far my favourite gracie :D
  3. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I call trolling on it personally. That or I've been even more put off the Gracies

    Did find Mayhem's tweets funny though:

    Jason Mayhem Miller ‏@mayhemmiller

    I was just walking through with my buddy in NYC near 20th and when he asked this stocky foreigner for a smoke, dude beat the hell out of him

    Jason Mayhem Miller ‏@mayhemmiller

    I'm retired from fighting, so I took off running, but this psycho with dreamy eyes got in his car and was searching to murder me
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    So he choked the guy out then whilst he was unconscious hit him repeatedly in both eyes?

    I can hear the sound of American lawyers preparing law suits from here...

  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Yeah. Not impressed by his attitude. Doesnt even sound like he even defended himself. More likr he saw 2 guys he thought was suspicious. Then decided to beat em up.

    Of course we're just getting one side of a story...not a good showinh I feel.
  6. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Sound like he's the thug rather than the other guy's. BTW that certainly isn't self defense. They should put him in jail. He's a piece of crap.
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Agreed, A modern day samurai.

    IIRC he had another attempted mugging a few years ago too.
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So your saying using premptive striking isnt self defence? Or that muggers dont use innoculous questions to drop a victims guard? Or that by hunting after his attackers he has made himself the same as the muggers?
  9. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'm saying he can defend the first strike as self defence, although his description still leaves things a bit sketchy, but kicking someone who's pleading on the floor, while taking pictures, tweeting and laughing the whole time, repeatedly choking someone out and then punching them while they are unconscious before spending ten minutes driving round looking for his mate goes way WAY beyond self defence and I'd love to see someone try and rationally defend it.

    I'd like to believe this is a troll job to create traffic but I dunno. This is the guy who stormed into a ring and kicked Nate Marquardt in the face after all.
  10. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    "Anything you say or do can and will be held against you in a court of law."

    This includes tweets.

    And in this case, his tweets actually confirm that he has physically assaulted at least one person, and has chased/gone looking for another. In fact, he also confirms that the first individual explicitly states that he WASN'T trying to rob him, and that he was just asking for a cigarette. In addition, there is picture evidence to confirm that Renzo has damaged his knuckles - apparently whilst choking a man out 3 times, giving him two black eyes, and verbally intimidating him. He has failed to provide an accurate context to the event, and has failed to explain why it was necessary to choke a man out 3 times (surely once is enough to escape?).

    This is a perfect example of why it is a bad idea to make statements when high on adrenaline. It's an even worse idea to do it during the act of playing some kind of vigilante hero, and to put self-incriminating evidence online in a publicly accessible area is beyond idiocy.
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It wasnt self defense, it was an Educational Beatdown by an Alpha male, hence the illadvised
    twitter posts.
    I was still the right thing to do.
  12. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Repeatedly punching an unconscious man in the eyes was the right thing to do?

  13. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    How exactly was it the right thing to do? He clocked two guys who happened to walk the same way as him and asked for a cigarette. I agree that that questions like that are used to distract potential victims but does that mean I deserve to have the crap kicked out of me when I ask someone the time on the way home at night? All in the name of "educating me" of course.

    I can think of only a couple situations I would feel the need to basically torture someone and they involve some serious personal beefs, not someone at my mercy after I've pre empted because I was scared of being a random victim. Most importantly all of the cases I can see me doing that also involve me accepting that what I did wouldn't, and shouldn't, be seen as the right thing to do. Not legally anyway.
  14. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    Judging from this thread the only thing he left out was tea bagging him
  15. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    Just because he's Renzo Gracie doesn't make him the good guy y'know. And whilst I am certainly a proponent of the educational beatdown, i am also a proponent of professional behaviour. If we were to assess the incident objectively, we would be able to argue the following:-

    1. Renzo inflicted violence far in excess of what was needed to stop the threat to his person, or the crime that he believed was about to be committed.

    2. Renzo continued to deliver further injury, even when the target was clearly incapacitated. This was done multiple times.

    3. The choice to continue attacking the target rather than escape was clearly due to ego rather than necessity. This is a point that although somewhat speculative, can be argued easily due to the fact that Renzo was taking pictures of his handiwork and providing real-time text updates of his progress.

    4. Renzo went hunting for the individual that escaped, without providing an acceptable motive for doing so.

    5. With all of the above in mind, it would be quite plausible to label the incident a gratuitous, ego-driven assault by a violent, boastful psychopath, rather than a rational and responsible act of self-defense by a fine upstanding martial practitioner and instructor.

    Instructors should be tactically aware, and should set an example to their students. This incident has shown significant failures on both fronts, regardless of actual context. The Gracies are well known and well respected in the martial arts community - i do not believe that this is in keeping with the image they are trying to promote, and the decision to publish it has - in my opinion - damaged their credibility.
  16. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Sounds to me like he's got a little Batman envy.
  17. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    he beat the guys eyes when unconscious to make him have raccoon eyes and thought it was funny.
    id understand if it was a the movie "Taken" and the guy had kidnapped Renzos daughter but the guy is sadistic
  18. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Renzo's twitter also lacks an incredibly badass phone threat
  19. february

    february Valued Member


    In the words of Kurt Osiander - those muggers messed up a long time ago.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012

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