One could argue that by giving us free will, God has given us all the power to contest His will. I would argue that it is not a question of contesting His will, but of being part of it.
Splitting frog hairs over how the Devil's will is defined does not address the original questions. One important point was that the divine nature of Gods Chrisians call a pantheon of Gods or polythesim in Hindu and Buddhist religions is not much different than the Christian pantheon of divine beings. Still not answered does the, 'My God . . . your God' indicate the belief in more than one God?
Good point. What defines a 'god'? If the christian god created 'man' in his image and man has the power of free will over the word of god, you could say in the christian interpretation, individuals are 'gods' as well (without even going into the whole menagerie of angels in the bible).
Polytheism in the Bible is an interesting topic. In the original teaxt of Genesis, 'Humans were created in 'Our' image.
Huh? It's like Adam & Eve's kids going off and marrying outside the family. How did that happen? (yes, before everyone send a smart answer, I know it's because from an anthropological pov Adam and Eve are metaphors for the tribes that settled in the Fertile Valley, but isn't that section of the bible a stick in the spokes for those people that believe in the literal truth of the bible?)
i think i might have already answered this but i cant remember, so here it is (again) i dont believe in religion i dont believe in telling someone that they are in the wrong and that they will go to hell. (no implications intended, i just got swamped by a nutter one day) i do believe in certain religious ideals, that shall remain my business and no others' with humility
Religion is simply a word that means unity. To not believe in 'religion' or what people called 'organized religion' is a common scapegoat for the problems of the world. The use of 'religious' is simply the adjective for the nature of 'religion' Not all religions have this strong belief in their own exclusiveness and sense of superiority over other beliefs. Both the Unitarians and the Baha'i Faith are very open and inclusive of othr beliefs.
re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. There's a difference between a religious belief and a philosophical/moral/political belief. The term religion is grounded in the supernatural. Without faith in supernatural processes, it isn't a religion, it's a philosophy. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on unity.
I never drew that conclusion. Unity is a concept that is in religion, philosophy, moral and political beliefs. I was referring to the origins of the word. The Unitarian Church is classified as a religion. Belief in the supernatural is not a necessary part of a religion. Generally Unitarian does not believe in the supernatural. I'm a Baha'i and I don't believe in the supernatural, because the concept is that the occurances or the belief cannot be explained by natural laws, above natural law or in contradiction with natural law. Baha'is for the most part believe in the Harmony of the Science and the Spiritual realms. There are not two sets of laws in existence; natural and supernatural. The belief in the supernatural usually occurs when people think that science cannot or is incapable of expaining certain things. Through the passage of time science has been able to explain things that were previously considered supernatural. No one knows what the future holds. The word following 'miracle in most dictionaries is 'mirage'.
Actually, I directly addressed your question. Not so, an orthodox viewing of the Trinity understands that there is difference in persons (in terms of relational function) yet the different members are of the same essence. (That's why I invoked the "water" example - which I indicated was not a perfect analogy in the first place.) It is baffling how the phrase "mother of God" can lead someone o this conclusion in the Roman Catholic faith. All God's creation with rational faculties were endowed with free will capacity - Satan is no different. Not deified in any sense - but certainly of a different power than a "regular" angel...if anyone can comprehend what power structure they have. Conjecture, speculation, all ANYONE can deduce about it.
It's not a leap for biblicists - Adam - mankind Eve - mother of all living Could be individuals and metaphorical...who, pray tell, would ever know?
Theres a lot of things in the bible that make little sense thanks to not only metaphor, but translation. The book was hand-copied by bored monks for YEARS before it was even translated. And when translated, things probably got changed that shouldnt have been. Thats just how it is. If I want to know the whole story, I'll just ask the big cheese himself. Won't be more than one hundred years when I get the chance.
You didn't answer the question that these analagies fit descriptions of other religions described as polytheistic. I am decidedly not alone in my line of thinking historically the break up of the Roman Church centered around some of these issues.
HA! The breakup of the RC church had very little to do with religion and a lot to do with politics. That is the trouble with religion - people use it to justify themselves and their actions when it does nothing of the sort.
Splitting hairs is what religion is all about!!! I am no longer a practicing Catholic. I believe in one God who has many facets, so that one religion does not exclude any other. What is God? The Bible tells us that God created man in His own image. I do not believe that God is a "person," but something else. This is where my personal beliefs start to get confused, as I am by nature a scientist and my interpretation of God is as a being and as a "force" at the same time. I think it is merely the inadaquacies of the human mind that constrict Him to being something more human. It is something that is beyond true human interpretation; such as the concepts of infinity, space-time and quantum probability, which exist in theory as abstract concepts.
HA! :woo: :woo: In those days religion and politics were not considered seperate. The Church and state were one. The right to rule and govern the people was a DIVINE right. The seperation of the state and the church didn't come until later. The debate concerning the Trinity and the role of Mary (Mother of God?) were very much issues debated by the schisms of the time. The power and authority of the Biship of Rome as the succesor to Peter was also an issue and also how many wives Henry the VIII wanted, but underlying issues of the nature of the theology of one God or Gods was a big issue. The early Unitarian Universalists broke away on this very issue and were persecuted viciously. Those question you described as beyond 'true human interpretation' are sincere questions being addressed in the more abstract modern side of math and physics. In the past it is common to describe things as beyond human 'comprehension' when later science was able to provide an adaquate understand of these questions. Comprehension is a better word, because 'interpretation' has a lot more wiggle room. We often give free riegn to the interpretating things we do not comprehend well.
Who has been to Italy to see the base of the Christian faith (Vatican)? What surprised me is the amount of death involved in Italian christianity. Every church you go to, there are real human skulls on the walls and saints/pieces of saints (often under glass) on the altars. I went to the bone church in Rome (a little smaller than the one in Prague), and saw nuns chanting to a decapitated head in Siena. What a lot of people don't understand is how different Christianity is around the world. There are the countries that have blended Christian faith with their own beliefs, as well as militant christianity in a lot of countries. Then there's the split between different christian faiths in the US, in particular the upsurge in Evangelical/fundamentalist christianity in the last few years. You can't talk about the 'Christian' faith as one entity - in many places the beliefs are almost polar opposites.
This quote only has meaning for those who believe and most Christians don't agree that other Christians understand or truely believe. One over used quote can do little to understand the purpose behind anything. Less than 15% of the Bible is quoted and well understood in Christian churches, and less than 15% of the known Christian and Jewish scripture of the world is in the Bible. The result and witness of a religion, church or faith over the centuries must be considered. People must address the question 'Why?' in more depth, and everyone should be more aware of the concequences of belief and take respondsiblity for the results in the world. Violence and suffering is the greatest witness of the religions and churches of the past.
