referendum on Europe

From my understanding, the reason why Britain hasn't had a referendum on the issue is because they don't want to be tied down. Based on voting turnouts and so on, how could the government accurately depict which way we would go?

If the public voted yes to the EU they would be under pressure to sign the constitution make it binding, give their power away to EMP. (Which I believe they don't want) But they want the economic benefits of course.

They also wouldn't want the public to opt out of the EU either.

I believe the govT would for the time being like to be kept in a state of limbo. That way they carry on as before (was it the Irish who refused the constitution? or the French?) Well if the country were to accept it Britain would have felt a lot of pressure from the EU to commit. But since someone else already refused they could just opt out.

 

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"The people who are against europe tend to be rightwingers, such as UKIP- which is sort of like a version of the BNP for people who can't quite bring themselves to vote for actual fascists. "

No that's nonsence, didn't you see the vid that I posted of Tony Benn, he is far from right wing. Yet he doesn't support the EU, remember when I was allowed to vote for it, I was told that I could vote for a "common Market" not a European superstate.........I question why people are so frightened of a referendum, is it because they think that people will opt to come out of the EEC?
or is it just that they are frightened of the democratic process?

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Yeah, there might be a few people further to the left who are silly enough to be persuaded by rhetoric designed to disguise the fact that this is a right wing idea, but that doesn't change the fact that most eurosceptics are raving right wing nutters. Also, if we really did set a date for withdrawing from the EU or some similar idiocy right now, it would definetly hurt the economy. Which is the last thing we want at this moment in time.

 

Firstly, I don't see any reason why we'd want to leave Europe given their incredibly sensible measures such as this - http://newsthump.com/2011/10/25/eu-considering-ban-on-excessive-use-of-caps-lock/

Secondly, the 'voice of the people' supposedly also included the rioters recently, and a study suggests they're not the smartest of people - http://newsthump.com/2011/10/24/cle...hrow-chairs-through-shop-windows-finds-study/

Between these two I think it's fairly clear that not only should we stay in the EU, but the 'people' shouldn't be given too much credence in their political views.

 

Also, the 'people' tend to be a little ignorant of the facts. For example, the huge benefits given to- particularly welsh- communities by EU funding tend not to be widely reported on news networks, so most people are simply unaware of their existence.
As for democracy. Yes, I think it's a good idea that, broadly speaking, government policy should reflect the wishes of those they are governing. But there are certain stances which should reflect principles, rather than democracy. For example, if there was a vote on the death penalty, we'd probably go back to executing people in this country. This clearly cannot be allowed to happen, so the government quite rightly decides to take a more or less principled stance and doesn't bring the issue up. There are certain things which elected politicians should not be allowed to alter- take the bill of rights and the constitution in the USA, for example. The moment you start to alter the constitution.... oh, wait...

 

I thought all of you Europeans were one big happy family now? (sarcasm intended).... throwing money at Greece, welcoming the north africans with open arms.....


What exactly is the state of the EU and how long is it going to last?

 

Let the sheeple speak

 

I agree!

Maybe if we left the EU, Spain could introduce a punitive tourist visa application process for British citizens. Axis of Evil readers might not respond well to being forced to make an Embassy visit months before and paying €x before heading off to their Spanish villa.
Actually, this would never happen, but it's the level of scaremongering that they indulge in daily anyway.

 

This isn't strictly true. The problem the traditional left have with the EU is that it extrapolates current labour relations (i.e. worker/boss relations to put it simply) on to a larger scale, so what you end up doing is strengthening the position of European companies whilst relatively destabilising members of the labour market. For example, the freedom of movement laws are designed simply for more flexible and mobile labour - anything to do with giving people more chances outside their respective countries is an afterthought.

 

That doesn't really affect my argument- not being part of the EU would make trade more difficult, resulting in a weakened economy.

 

No it wouldn't. It hasn't affected Norway or Switzerland, and the EU have negotiated about 100 contracts with other countries outside the EU. Saying something like that shows a complete ignorance of Economics. The EU wil trade with whoever benefits it .it's rather like the current saga about the Euro, it's the markets that will decide the Euros future, although politicans will try

 

Well, it affects your portrayal of the left being won over by right-wing rhetoric

 

Garbage. The whole point of being in europe is that it confers mutual trade benefits.

Not really- it offers another excuse for closet rightwingers who have been silly enough to believe phoney far-right hype that really has a much more xenophobic agenda.

 

Norway and Switzerland have a vast collection of treaties and trade agreements with the EU and its membership that they have spent the last 100 years negotiating. EU membership is quite popular in Norway, with ~40% of the population supporting it. The Swiss government has been trying for decades to join the EU, but their direct democracy means it has to go through a referendum, where it has been consistently beaten back. Although they did sign up to Schengen, which was a big step forward.

If we stepped out of the EU, we'd effectively be starting from scratch and would probably struggle to negotiate trade deals that are half as friendly as the ones we currently inherit from the EU.

You really shouldn't throw around words like ignorance whilst displaying your own for all to see.

 

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"You really shouldn't throw around words like ignorance whilst displaying your own for all to see. "

lost none of your charm or good manners I see

Norway and Switzerland do not belong to the EU and they have not negotiate to be in the EU for 100 years, because The EU hasn't existed for that long.

The reason that Switzerland hasn't joined is because they have a democratic process, and their population when consulted ( unlike ours ) didn't want to join, the Swiss government want to join. how was Schengan a big step forward? how is it a step forward to walk over people's democratic rights , holier than thou you sound like a nazi. I suppose you supported the south African whites in not giving democratic rights to the black people, and where deeply diappointed by Nelson Mandela becoming President.gievn your views on people's democratic rights

 

Please, irony is no more. Nekoashi killed her. In a world with no more irony, accusing people of 'sounding like nazis' while advocating a policy backed by the far right just sounds stupid.

 

You know this is kind of ironic given your follow-up accusations here:

However they do have a large number of carefully negotiated treaties and agreements, which we don't have in place independently of EU membership.

Because people's democratic rights are often overrated. Mob rule is, surprisingly, not a good idea unless you have a well-educated, engaged, intelligent and interested mob.