97% of knife attacks are non fatal, you may get stabbed but it's not the Hollywood style 1 hit and you're done deal the vast majority of the time. It's important to keep fighting. The bigger problem with knife defence is that you may well be completely clueless about the fact there's a knife until after it's all over, so specific knife defence is a little redundant. As Hannibal says, the specific knife defence material in TMAs is for when you've become unarmed in an armed fight. For modern civilian combatives I'd argue that "blade aware" empty hand training is more important. From there I think "knife defence" material should then be an extension of your blade aware H2H (JT has spoken a little about this, and says it's why he doesn't show a lot of knife defence material in public). For example I do some STAB derived material, but the initial entry is the same as our clinch knee defence work (it's after all an attack from a similar angle).
IMHO getting to the outside is great but doing so when you've already controlled the arm on the inside is introducing another opportunity to get cut. I like looking at it from a conceptual point of view so that whatever happens you've got a road map of what to do. If your strikes and responses are geared around getting the 2on1 and being outside then you could be in trouble if your attacker grabs your neck and stabs from the right and all you can get is an inside arm wrap.
Did you watch the Red Zone video linked in this post? http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1074975537&postcount=3 The whole premise is getting an inside 2-on-1 then transitioning to an outside 2-on-1.
That makes sense, I just don't have any confidence in my being able to pull it off. I know in the gym I'll make stupid mistakes, bob when I should have weaved, hipped left when I should have hipped right, etc. The cost of those mistakes in isolation seem much more serious to the entirety of the endeavor when it involves a knife instead of a fist. My guess is you'd need to be… on point… to defend yourself against a blade.
Yeah I'm not saying it's a bad thing and should absolutely be something that's trained if knife defence as a consideration. I just think from some knife attacks it'd a be a tricky position to get reliably (slashing attacks, high line stabs, attacks from a headlock position, attacks while you're seated or prone. Not that I've been much of a knife guy but I've always gone with the Hoch Hockheim approach where the goal is "control the weapon limb and then bash the bugger". How you do that will vary depending on situation but at least you've got a goal in mind.
Oh no, I really don't like the entry from the Red Zone stuff, seems to have a lot of scope for getting stabbed in the neck. However the 2-on-1 approach has become widespread through STAB which most of us are familiar with. Also the Red Zone stuff was only addressing belly thrusts. It's also pretty much the default against a "Psycho" style attack. Interestingly the outside 2-on-1 is seen in medieval treatises.
The reality of knife violence is you don't have a choice. People who are intending to stab you don't show you the blade and give you a chance to run away. Like I say, you have to move away from the idea that you won't get stabbed/cut and instead move to the mindset that it probably won't be that bad. If it's any comfort I'm far from a knife expert and I participate in high intensity knife defence work semi regularly and I probably only take a shot to the torso once a night.
But that's what I'm saying, it's not a panacea but it is a very effective solution to two common and hard to defend HAOV attacks.
Not sure about the whole inside-two-on-one thing in general. The position exists in live grappling in my experience when people are going for o-soto-gari, which he doesn't seem to do, and the counter for people running to your back isn't to block them with your elbow but to shoulder throw them. For this circumstance that seems a bit sub-optimal.
Many thanks for all the posts. Interesting read. Just to clarify what i think i wrote in one of my first posts; i am having MAJOR concerns about encouraging anyone to take up a fight with someone who comes at you with a knife or even to engage in knife defence training, because i fear it doesnt meet the bill. But if you cant run or pick up a weapon you should at least try to give the guy all you have got. As i see it that two hand on one grip could - maybe - make a difference for you to spend less days in the hospital? As long as the initial set off is from a sound base i think whatever amount of training you can do is better than nothing at all or just saying " it cant be done"
Not saying it can't be done, am saying that unless you are in a profession where you are going to be under the threat of a knife attack on a regular basis the time needed to be put into this type of training to make it work probably isn't worthwhile for most people, especially as so much of the stuff out there is rubbish, you odds of being attacked for most is low, and the odds of any of this stuff stopping you getting hurt is low. Training should be about stuff you enjoy, if you are seriously worried about a knife attack, then carry your own weapon its a much better way of beating an armed attacker than going empty hand
Also if the first you know about a knife being involved, is getting stabbed, then having a unused knife on you doesnt get you less stabbed.
My knife "fobia" is already skyrocketing, that is excactly what happend when i got stabbed myself(allthough i did not carry a weapon). Difficult topic.
Looking at the original post, I think training from a dvd, without any other training isn't an effective process. They need to train in something, and layer the SD specific grappling ontop of this.
Looks like krav maga to me. Nothing wrong with it as long as they dont claim a high succesrate. Knives are difficult to defend against. Getting away alive with a cut in stead of getting stabbed is a 'win'.
