Red Manual

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Herbo, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    In several recent and some older threads a KSW red manual has been mentioned which if I have understood correctly was a precursor to the current black manuals which I own, my question really is whether it is still possible to obtain one of these red manual's mainly to satisfy my own curiosity as to how much the sylabus has changed over the years. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  2. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    v hard to find, some pop up on ebay every now and then, but go for quite a bit
  3. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I recently sold-off the copy of the Red book and retained my copies of the 2-vol Black Set.

    Other than for curiousity sake, I can't recommend the Red book. The photography, proof-reading and descriptions are such that it simply would not provide any great insights. By way of comparison I also have the KUK SOOL book published by Dr. KIMM He-young and the variances there are minimal as well. All the same, the photography and descriptions in Kimm's book are heads and tails above the Red book. If I were going to compare works for whatever insights might be gleened, my guess is that you would want to use Kimm's work instead. IMHO.

    Best Wishes,

  4. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    i agree (sharp intake of breath, and shocked look on bruce's face ;) )Dr Kims book is much better and contains veriants and sets of techniques missing from the official books, plus an some nice photos.

    you can still get this book from his han mo do website i think, or agian check ebay.
  5. WalkInPeace

    WalkInPeace Valued Member

    I mentioned the red book in passing, but only as an example of how many masters have left KSW. I wouldn't worry about how techniques have changed. I'd be a little worried if they didn't.

    A bit off topic, but one of my prize possesions is an early copy of the black volume 3 textbook. It belonged to a 1st Dan at our school that started training when he was 66 years old, and got his black belt at age 72. This was after he had his liver replaced. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago, but we keep his certificate hanging on the wall as a reminder of what real strength is.
  6. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

    Last time I saw one on ebay it went in the $150 range. I actually got a copy of the earlier blue book for $50 right after one went on ebay for $500 on the used book site abe. But the different versions of the book are pretty similar. A few different pictures and the blue book and first red book have pictures of some of the current masters at the time. Overall the quality of the red books in general is poor compared to what we have now.
  7. DoJe

    DoJe Valued Member

    Wouldn't be parted from my copy of the Red book although more from a novelty value than a training aid - the printing errors and back to front fonts make for an interesting read :)
  8. Out-to-Lunch

    Out-to-Lunch Valued Member

    I bought mine for $320 on ebay a couple years ago...Hard to find...only value is history...
  9. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

  10. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I assume you're referring to instances like on page 58, where you need to hold it up to a mirror in order to read it easily. :D

    BTW, if i might ask, where did a Blue Belt get a copy of such an older KSW textbook? More importantly, WHY would someone of that rank even be interested in such trivia?
  11. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Personnally I have issues about MA selling manuals for these inflated prices. Usually what I do is locate someone who has a sincere interest and we settle on a fair price. It just bothers me that information is not passed around unless people can come up with the bucks.

    Sometime back I was going to see if any of the folks in the TSKSR community of Japanese swordsmen would be intersted in my copies of DEITY AND THE SWORD but it got into a bidding war so I pulled the offer.

    Now, true enough, once a person has whatever I offered there is nothing to say that they won't turn-around and try to make a profit....but thats on them. As my own research moves along there are always books that I find myself not touching and its worth passing them along to people who can use them. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

  12. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    C'mon Bruce, you know good & well that's what eBay and other web auction sites of similar ilk are all about - fetching the highest bid. :rolleyes:
  13. MasterDunchok

    MasterDunchok Valued Member

    I'd like to get a copy of the plain old vol 3 black book myself, but even that's been really hard to find.
  14. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned


    I'm afraid your only chance to get one would be via eBay. WKSA has ALWAYS required one of their BB ID #'s be verified before selling volume 3 (not so with vol. 1 & 2). But many folks who got that far and were "legitimized" to purchase a copy but ultimately decided not to continue with MA (or perhaps with WKSA), have been known to auction their stuff off.

    When it first happened, the "powers that be" considered changing vol. 3 to only include 1st dahn material instead of 1st & 2nd dahn material, but that never happened AFAIK. The syllabus gets extremely "thin" for each dahn rank as you progress upward, and therefore they had to abandon the idea to break (the long awaited) 4th volume into separate multiple books based on rank.
  15. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    I'm not training in kuk sool anymore, but I'd still like a copy of the 3rd black book. I wouldn't use it for training, only as an addition to the MA collection in my library.
  16. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    Speaking of which, what's the latest with book 4?
  17. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    Cheers guys, i'll be keeping an eye out for Dr Kim's book now as well.

    And to masterdunchok, perhaps if you showed you're own blackbelt identification whilst keeping your thumb over the Kwan part, you might get a volume 3 after all :p
  18. Out-to-Lunch

    Out-to-Lunch Valued Member

    Just get Dr. Kimm's "Kuk Sool Classic"...

    I'd like Vol. 3 just to match up my set, but its not like any of the Kuk Sool curriculum cant be found elsewhere (up to 5th dan at least)...Ya just have to know where to look...

    I dont understand the veil of secrecy on the Vol. 3 deal...It could be some decent revenue generation for WKSA...Who knows, they may have to do that if the franchise "agreement" does not "change"...
  19. DoJe

    DoJe Valued Member

    My wife bought it for me off e-bay as a Christmas present this year - she knows no better - as illustrated by her next present which was a Kung Fu Panda DVD which she though was a MA training video.:rolleyes:

    Trivia maybe but interesting nevertheless.
  20. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    There seems to be growing movement towards "proprietary information". Dr Kimm has his own brand of Hapkido art called HANMUDO and the manual for that is available only to folks who join that particular group. I understand that the HWARANGDO group under LEE Joo Bang has some similar information.

    In the kwan I belong to, MYUNG Kwang Sik pretty much taught what was available in his books and tapes. Yet, every now and then he would go off on a tangent and start sharing things that never turned-up in his published work. Hard to say where it all came from, and there was always the chance that whatever was shared might not pop-up again. Seemed to a kind of "spur-of-the-moment" sort of thing. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,


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