Reason for staying with TKD

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by locust, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. -Harlequin-

    -Harlequin- Valued Member

    This statement is very dangerous, some things need to adapt and change, there are old methods that do not need to change, as you rightly said.

    But the training methology applied by, for example, MMA fighters is very different to the training methology applied by Traditionalists, like yourself, In my opinion and experience modern training methods can really take a good martial artist to being a great martial artist.

    The reverse punch might have been around for years, but the way its done varies from style to style. And the training methods behind attaining a powerful reverse punch have different schools of thought as well.
     
  2. hkdstl

    hkdstl Banned Banned

    You have made me look at things a bit differently, you are a class act. Ya know I have always thought that the way mma folks condition themselves is rather diligent and precise. But in all honesty everything that has to do with success comes down to 2 things.......1. Your instructor and 2. Your own drive.

    I have never seen an elite mma pratitioner not be in shape. I have never seen an elite tkd practitioner not be in shape either. Man, I have seen olympic sparring at the black belt level where people were breaking each others ribs.

    Funny thing is though that there are people doing this MA stuff to be in shape and hang out. Like a cooler version of Gold's Gym. And like it or not it is the mainstream. However there are still hardworking gyms, ya just gotta look.
     
  3. FiReSTaRT

    FiReSTaRT Caffeine Junkie

    I have been fortunate to have started with a very hard-nosed Saseong and to have come back to training with one of his "heirs" and other Busabums/Sabums who trained under him. In our dojang, you do not train to get in shape. You are expected to be in good enough shape to deliver your techniques with full intensity from beginning to the end. If you can't, GM Parris also offers free remedial classes to his students that address that particular issue.
    Our instructors also teach grappling and opponent control techniques. Our fundamentals are given focus based on their practicality. Even when we go through patterns and step-sparring, they get analyzed based on their practicality in SD applications.
    I think that the biggest downfall of modern teaching of TK-D lies in time limitations. If a practitioner put in the required time to properly develop the full breadth of techniques taught by General Choi, they'd have to invest too much of the time that could be spent on doing their jobs and/or going to school in addition to having a personal life. That is why, your typical dojang, will have an hour into which they'll cram a warmup with stretching, fundamentals, tuls, step sparring and maybe some competition-style free-sparring.
    While I try to work on my fitness, tuls, theory and technique on my own as much as possible, so I can focus on taking advantage of other aspects of the art, while at the dojang, sometimes it's difficult to find the time with my work, responsibilities around the house, my wife, my other hobbies and my friends.
    Sometimes a student will complain about not developing an effective arsenal at the dojang. For him/her I have 2 questions:
    1) Have you talked to the Sabum/Saseong about adapting the curriculum?
    2) Do you feel physically fit enough to survive a class while executing everything with full concentration/intensity and technically proficient to execute the techniques relevant to your level with minimal/rare corrections from your Sabum/Saseong?
    If the answer to both those questions is "yes," look for another dojang. In most cases, the blame does not rest on the instructor/system. Guess who's left :D
     
  4. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    No probs. I get all that. Where I disagree is saying that TKD contained or contains things like boxing and wrestling. There may be an upward punch,straight punch, hooking punch etc and some kind of grappling type techniques yet it doesnt make it boxing or wrestling in how its trained or how its applied. Its like a Judo person saying there is a kick or two in Judo so that makes it a mix of Japanese Jujitsu and TKD.
     
  5. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Ok good, no problem.
    Now I was not there in their Army trining & would imagine it was mostly karate. However when it came to real fighting, I am sure it was applied as anything goes. Now original TKD is suppossed to have this anything goes "free sparring" & sadly it is really not implemented much at all, which IMO is not only a shame, but does a dis-service to what original TKD was created for. What I find even sadder is how many ITF TKD instructors do not know this basic fact & aspect of their KMA of SD!
     
  6. -Harlequin-

    -Harlequin- Valued Member

    You have also taught me new things too, so thankyou sir.:)
     
  7. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    I found this thread facinating and wanted to revive it with a couple of thoughts. It seems to me that discussing the past in this case is counter productive. If techniques were in TKD intitially doesn't matter if a majority of schools no long teach them. The question before the gorup then becomes what do we emphasize going forward and how? A few of my thoughts:
    1) I beleive certain traditional aspects should be retained. Poomse, Drills, and core hand and foot techniques should be retained. These are a Core of TKD. A greater emphasis on Hand techniques and movement would be good at many school.
    2) I do like the idea of "Free Sparring" put forth here periodic work on comprehensive limited rule fighting would greatly help many schools.
    3)Ground Work: We can go one of two ways with this as MMA its self has shown. Currently there are two successful theories in MMA Strikers how have takedown/Submission defenses and limited submission skills, and Grapplers who have limited striking skills. As we are or should be a comprehensive striking art, I would suggest the first path of emphasis. Our skills are in striking why fight to someone elses strenghts. In a situation like that we need to be able to prevent the takedown/submission and get back to your feet. Make them fight in our world :) If someone wishes to grapple cross train properly learn JJ, Judo, or the like. To do other wise is to invite disaster imagine someone in Judo fighing in K1 just because they are good at their Atemi Wazza (Striking).
    4) New Techniques: Following #3 we should add takedown defenses, Limited Reversals and Standing Locks, Sweeps, Ground Striking and Movement. (Emphasize staying out of someone guard/Grounda and pound methodology). Clinch fight should be something we incorporate as well, and Breakfalls.

    Many will say where is the time? Why not Standardize on it taking 5 years to BB status. By then you will have ample time to lay a proper foundation. Also take Tourney Sparring out of regular class make it a separate seasonal class. For those running childrens classes some ciricula would be different naturally as the more. This setup would also force McDojo's out.
    Just a parting thought on the need for this evolution. Name the Top 3 highschool sports in the United States. ..... For those not familiar most would answer Basketball, Football, and Wrestling. (in no particular order:)) Two of these involve taking people to the ground or tackling in football's case and one Wrestling involves real ground control. I know in football everyone got some extensive tackling practice 5 days a week for half the year and in many areas this starts at the age of 7. Remember in a confrontation we fall back on what we know best. By the age 18 the equivilent of 8 years of training are hard to beat unless your ready. Food for thought.:)
     
  8. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I see your point, but would respectfully suggest that often, knowing where someone came from, along with the how & why the change happened, can be benefical in getting back on course. But you are right, going forward & what schools should emphasize is more important IMHO

    Agreed. Original TKD is a SD Art form. It offers more to students than just SD, so certain things must be retained to keep it TKD

    Yes but remember that the free sparring that was put forth here, has been part of the ITF TKD as developed by Gen Choi. Sadly even far too many ITFers ignore it for tournament match rules

    Sounds good to me, but we do it with the kids as well & they love it.
    As for the time, since Original TKD is a lifelong activity & pursuit, there is plenty of time. Getting to I Dan BB according to the principle founder of the Original TKD is about grasping the basics, having skill to defend themselves better against a single attacker. Subsequent BB training should be focused on SD & real fighting!
     

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