Really... wen ur on the ground in a life or death situation why not use eye pokes, spearing the throat, squeezing/ripping testicles, and biting? And another thing... in a life or death situation where someone has u in a rear naked choke... isnt that a good opportunity to go for the balls and/or reach behind for the eyes?
When someone has you in a rear naked choke on the street, you are in serious trouble. Remember, a lack of rules goes both ways. While you're groping for eyes or crotch, you are literally being strangled to death, and there's no ref to stop things when you pass out. Best way to survive on the street? Do a little crosstraining in some ground-based styles so you know how to reliably get yourself out of bad situations, and more importantly how to avoid them in the first place.
First, I'd like to respectfully suggest that you spell-check your work. It's hard to take an argument seriously when it looks like it's been written by a four year old. To answer your first question, in a life and death situation, anything goes. So all those techniques you listed would be an option. However, they are not, themselves, an "answer" to the ground game. The best way to counter grappling is to learn how to grapple. In the chaos of a fight, you may end up out of position to attack those targets you mentioned, or even have use of your hands. In grappling, people look to put their hand in your face or between your legs all the time, in order to post or pass guard or get head control. An experienced grappler will see these moves coming and have an answer for it. Further, grappling allows you to use mechanics and body movement; some of the techniques you listed, like biting and groin attacks, rely on the opponent to respond to pain rather than cause the kind of damage that would take them out of a fight. This may not work on people hopped up on adrenaline or drugs, or simply very tough guys. However, a mechainically correct scissors sweep will work on anyone, regardless of their pain threshold. Below are some examples of guys who tried to use the "foul" techniques against superior grapplers: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RawPYGzYOQ"]YouTube - Jiu-Jitsu Vs. Hapkido‏[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXUCjLgyis"]Karate vs BJJ - YouTube[/ame] Draculino discusses BJJ answers to biting and ball grabbing: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxZKZsqWdFw"]YouTube - Draculino BJJ - Provoking a Giant - Part 2 : Ball Grabbers‏[/ame] My take is this: if a guy starts looking to gouge and such while I have him in a choke, I plan to keep applying while trying to defend to the best of my ability. But he's going to go to sleep in a few seconds, and then I can return the favor to him. Of course, use these techniques, but only after you have exhausted your mechanically sound options. As for grabbing the balls when a guy has a RNC on you, not really. Maybe if he's standing, but on the ground, the body scissors position doesn't allow for the space you'd need to slip your hand in. And again, his balls aren't choking you; his arm is. Fight that off first. That's the danger. You know exactly where that is and what it's doing to you. In order to attack the testicles, you have to reach blindly behind your own back and hope you find your target before you get put to sleep. Sure it's an option, but I don't consider it a particularly good one.
But if u think bout it, any strike has a defence (unless it was a well timed non telegraphic strike). So attacks like grab for balls will have a defense against it but also a strike to head wuld. Honestly i do think the strike to the balls would be a harder to pull off than a punch to head. But there are many times when the balls will be in range and a fake or some setup could be used to make a quick opportunity where the balls are open. .. I could imagine if ur in someones guard u culd use a simple circular rotation of the arm inwards to result in ur palm swingin down in the balls with ur elbow coming up at same time (hope u can visualize what im tryin to say). And I can only imagine that a poke to the eye would be an upmost effective strike in the ground game. There are so many times where people on top could have a great chance if pulled off correctly to poke an eye. And i shouldnt of made it sound like those foul strikes are the only things you should rely on, but rather use it as an addition to other techniques.,,, For biting... i can imagine u get a hold of opponent's wrist and bite the finger real quick and continue. And for throat strike, tuckin pointer finger under middle finger and usin middle finger to spear at throat would do great damage.
oh and i just thought why not work the legs when ur in someones guard. the elbows could be used for that i can visualize. Maybe the knee could be damaged in a way.
If I've got you in a rear naked choke both my balls and my eyes are pretty safe. I mean how exactly are you going to hit them in the balls? Your own body is in the way. The reality of survival on the ground is you need some fundamental positional wrestling skills, otherwise you're not going to be able to gouge anyone's eyes.
You'd be feeding yourself into a triangle choke, omoplata, or straight armbar doing something that doesn't do much harm at all even if he lets you strike a couple of times. That's the first thing people try when they start learning to pass guard and people who grapple are very conditioned against it. No, it would hurt because he's going to kimura your arm off and take it home when you put your hand behind your back. As has been said, even a poor backride keeps your genitals hidden. Even if you could reach up and under his legs the pants won't allow much of a grip unless they're silk or something very soft and smooth, and if you're wrestling with dudes in silk pants it probably ain't a fight. Basically the catchall answer for techniques like that goes something like this. 1. The techniques can work, but aren't generally as sure to win the fight as many will tell you. 2. The person with superior control of positions and experience on the ground will generally be in a far better position to apply or defend the techniques. 3. The vast majority of the techniques are made much more difficult to apply effectively by strutcure of proper ground position. 4. Escalating violence against someone who is good enough that you need to use a technique like that to succeed is usually just a case of turning a rape into a murder, figuratively speaking.
Here's your problem... ... you are speculating from a point of inexperience/ignorance. Anyone that has grappled for as little as a few weeks would realise that your theories are redundant, unworkable and mostly suicidal. If you want to explore the reality of ground fighting then perhaps the realm of the imagination isn't the best arena?
well thx alot guys and sorry if i sounded like a jackass i didnt mean to. i am very interested in combat and will prolly be posting some pretty wierd stuff that i think torwards it and would appreciate it if u prove me wrong if i am wrong or add to me if im right.... thx
you do realize that grappling covers various ranges of combat right? im assuming grappling cause this thread is in the submission fighting/ MMA forum, if a grappler has you on the ground and you attempt eye pokey or spear throat, they are gonna expect that and counter it, the time it takes for you to wiggle your arm out for an eye poke or spear is the same time it takes for you to have your arm broken or shoulder ripped out of its socket because while you were tryin to poke the person's eye you made it easier for them by setting yourself up in an even more compromising position. if your in a various number of positions on the ground by a grappler or even some random street fighter the balls thing wont do much for u either in the heat of the fight with the adrenaline pumping, your setting yourself up and probably getting pummeled in the process as well.
Obviously, then you should box. But then what happens if they kick you from outside your punching range or jam you up with leg kicks or take you down? Maybe an MMA school is a bit more rounded option. But seriously have you ever done any shooting? You have to realize the difference in target size and the angles you have to come in at. It's much harder to jab someone in the eye, especially after you've missed once or twice and jacked up your finger on his forehead or whatever's behind him.
Yes you are correct this is very insightful of you and thanks for sharing why people are arguing with you is beyond me, grappling is a sport not for true self defence and people should realise that For any one in doubt about the effectiveness of the suggest moves and the truth of my statement above I suggest you look up the video of John Marsh (pro MMA fighter) getting thrashed by a san soo master sean scott who used these deadly tactics to win his real NHB fight with John……..
