Hi folks, I'm going away for a week. ( Yes I'll miss you too ) I've been thinking about this subject for a while, and I expect to return to a thriving thread full of insightful information from you all. Spurred by Yodas' questions on the 'Regulated Certification' thread; 'There will always be places that cater for.....' 1/ Those that want to learn to fight. 2/ Those that want to think they are learning to fight, but don't want to take the inherent risks in doing so effectively. 3/ Those that want to compete & win trophies and maybe pick up a few tips on real fighting along the way. 4/ Those that want to avoid learning to fight at all costs, but want to become pseudo-oriental mystics. ( ROFLMAO at Number 4 ) My Questions are ................. 1/ How effective is your Martial Art(s) in a real fight? 2/ How much of your Martial Art(s) training is superfluous to a real fight? 3/ How much time do you spend performing movements you enjoy, over movements that will work? 4/ How realistic is your training environment? 5/ Have you ever tested your opinions of what works and what doesn't in a real life situation? 6/ Does your Martial Art propogate techniques or reaction training that could potentially endanger you in a real situation. I realise these are strongly flavoured questions. They are not intended to offend anyone on forum, merely to provoke thought, and/or discussion. See you in a week! Andy
I voted "I train to fight" ... but that's not completely accurate. I train because I love it. I train to learn more. I train to become a better teacher and help others learn more. I train to have fun. But ... the underlying core is that "I train for reality" ... which goes past just fighting to include (to one degree or another) avoidance, awareness, legality, etc. "I train to fight" was the closest of the options ... but doesn't really fill the bill. Mike
Sorry Mike, three was meant to be.... 'I train for reality, with some fun slung in' I can't edit it now though.
Its worked every time for me and people I know so I'd have to say pretty effective. Not much to be honest, maybe downwards kick practice, and perhaps crescent kick, but even those could be used. Nope, not really anything that I can think of. No difference between the two, almost everything we practice will and does work. Although we do practice jumping kicks now and again, but that's only about one every four or five classes. Apart from the equipment we use its fairly realistic. In-fighting techniques are very realistic. Yes. Not in the least.
If you'd asked me a year ago it would have been 'train to fight'. But now I've started training with university clubs I find my normally disciplined self being dragged into 'silliness'! So now I like to have a wee laugh here and there as well! I've been in plenty of scraps and I'm still here (and as handsome as ever), I'd say quite effective. Depends as I train in multiple styles, I'd say that some of the more archaic formalities of 'traditional schools' are pointless or haven't been explained properly. From my own studies I've found that alot of these have a purpose its just that instructors have failed to learn them. Are these traditions what set us above 'trained thugs'? A little, Ushiro Geri (reverse kick) again has its applications but is taught in a very ineffective way. Some styles have a 'ritualistic' way of starting a technique so that you can learn the principles of a technique 'THIS MUST BE STATED TO THE STUDENT!!!' The Judo envirnoment is very artifical (throwing myself to the ground?) the same with karate 'straight up and down' drills. Tai Jitsu, a little better, bags, pads, people scattered about so that you can fall over them. Yes. I've heard people diss ABC (avoid block counter) but I've managed to work it in a real fight (given most of those were I suspect untrained thugs ). Theres not enough time for big flashy kicks (I'm sure theres ppl out there who can, but not me). Oh, and headbutts, elbows, knees and gouging have all worked for me. I find in some dojos that ppl will work a technique until its perfect, stopping halfway through to check little points, with a partner who is co-operating 100%. THIS TYPE OF TRAINING WILL GET YOU KILLED. If you fluff up a technique halfway through do something, anything! But remember to always have fun!!! Thanx for reading my ramble.
I agree, minor corrections are for when a drill is over or you're doing technical work, stopping in the middle of practice to work on something minor is not a good idea.
Just thought I would give you somwthing to read Andy, How effective is your Martial Art(s) in a real fight? Absolutely Devastating!!! Any martial art that you train in should be useful in a self defense situation. When you are in a fight the other guy already suspects aggression or retaliation. It depends greatly on the practitioner. I would say that the art I study is devastating, but it will only work if I have calmness, confidence, concentration and apply it properly. 2/ How much of your Martial Art(s) training is superfluous to a real fight? None.Parkers Kenpo was designed for just that. It focus on logically controlling the attacker by understanding the "cause and effect" relationship of your natural weapons hitting intended targets through open lines of entry. All martial arts build these qualities. 3/ How much time do you spend performing movements you enjoy, over movements that will work? None. I have been taught and still teach 168 self defense techniques that we use during every class to hone our precision and sharpen our reactions, the essence of Kenpo is the logical sequential flow of action that controls the height, width and depth of the attacker. 4/ How realistic is your training environment? Depends on the age group I am teaching. Children are taught to push "like" it is real, punch "like" you intend to hit them, kick "like" you intend to kick them put them into a headlock "like" the meanest kid on the playground, put them into a bearhug "like" the biggest kid on the playground. Adults and Teens: Push them, punch them, kick them, grab them hard, concentrate and use control as you put them IN the ground NOT on it! 5/ Have you ever tested your opinions of what works and what doesn't in a real life situation? No. I do not have time to think about my opinions before or during I fight, I do not predict overestimate or underestimate my opponent. In short I try to control the adrenaline dump and clear my mind and I do not think. The Tiger focuses only the environment and how to best make the kill. I have only affirmed that what was taught works after it was all over. 6/ Does your Martial Art propogate techniques or reaction training that could potentially endanger you in a real situation. All martial arts are perfect in design, it is us as stupid humans beings that put ourselves into dangerous situations. However I have never experienced and do not see the potential for dangerous situations to a practitioner because they are executed techniques properly.It is only when the practitioners fail to execute the technique properly that they fail. The key word is properly and everything that makes the technique proper from initiation to execution.
Interesting reading indeed folks, though I am surprised more members don't want to answer these questions. Maybe that is an answer in itself! Thanks for your thoughts! Andy
OK Andy, I'll make the effort to reply. 1/ How effective is your Martial Art(s) in a real fight? Haven't been in a real fight since I started doing martial arts. I think I'm less mouthy for doing them so that probably accounts for it. 2/ How much of your Martial Art(s) training is superfluous to a real fight? Difficult to say for above reason. 3/ How much time do you spend performing movements you enjoy, over movements that will work? It'd be nice if I could find more than 30 mins a week to do any solo practice. 4/ How realistic is your training environment? Train in usual clothes for Wing Chun in a hall ie. no buses to fall in front of/ bins to back into... Aikido in gi with mats down. Hmmm not very. 5/ Have you ever tested your opinions of what works and what doesn't in a real life situation? no 6/ Does your Martial Art propogate techniques or reaction training that could potentially endanger you in a real situation.Don't think so. Hope that was worth it! ]
1/How effective is your Martial Art(s) in a real fight? My style of karate was designed specifically for personal combat. 2/ How much of your Martial Art(s) training is superfluous to a real fight? None... Techniques that are delivered from natural stances. We use a vertical fist (which is a cause for many debates). Close-in techniques and low kicks for street practicality. Hand techniques and foot techniques are equally stressed so you learn how to use all your weapons. 3/ How much time do you spend performing movements you enjoy, over movements that will work? None, no reason to practice something that doesn't work? 4/ How realistic is your training environment? The dojo is a "controlled" training environment. We attempt to simulate a natural environment and work out different scenarios to give us a base knowledge to tap into in the event of a real life situation. 5/ Have you ever tested your opinions of what works and what doesn't in a real life situation? NO, Opinions and ideas should be tested in training. In a real life situation, I'm doing what I know works. Mushin...because when it comes down to the "Nitty Gritty" thinking causes hesitation and hesitation will get you killed. 6/ Does your Martial Art propogate techniques or reaction training that could potentially endanger you in a real situation. No, we are taught to be aware and avoid situations if possible. There is no dishonor in walking away if the situation allows. If we have no choice other then to rock and roll, we have an arsenal of practical street wise techniques at our disposal. In a real life situation your mindset or (instinct, subconsciously working) at the time quickly evaluates the circumstances and environment and makes a judgment call on how to handle it. quote: with a partner who is co-operating 100%. THIS TYPE OF TRAINING WILL GET YOU KILLED. Agree, in real life your attacker is not going to passively stand there and allow you to do something to them so make your training partner work for it. Quote: "put them IN the ground, not ON it!" I believe this to mean that your intended focus target on your opponent for a technique is the entry point that you deliver your strength and energy into and not the stopping point after contact.
"Put them IN the ground not ON it", simply means to me, when they go down they go down hard and broken, consciousness is a relative term. Angle of entry and angle of departure are just on opposites sides of a circle or a line of attack. The angle of departure can easily be redirected into the line of attack once again, by changing the angle of attack, line of entry, and weapon to target alignment.
