Real Life story for those who doubt Chinese medicine

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by jinkan, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Too much of, or the absence of almost anything can kill you.

    For example, to little water and you die of thirst. Too much water and you die of drowning.
     
  2. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Interesting read from Vanity Fair, not sure about the credibility though:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/01/deadly-medicine-201101#gotopage2

     
  3. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Well done, you win the prize for the most ill-informed post I've ever read on MAP.
     
  4. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Knighty, dont know if you saw my post a few pages back. You might find this interesting:

     
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

  6. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Interesting read, thanks, and what you say is true, but somewhat incomplete: "we should be skeptical about everything".

    Taking this sort of view in to account, I am somewhat skeptical when a person from framework A, whom as far as I know has no practical knowledge or experience of framework B, assumes they can accurately gage the efficacy of framework B by merely criticizing the theory of said framework.

    In any case, I agree with his conclusion, or at least in part:

    "Any individual diagnostic or treatment method within TCM (or any other system) should be evaluated according to standard principles of science and science-based medicine, and not given special treatment".
     
  7. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Another interesting read:

    Original BMJ article is here, but not fully accessible:

    http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.d8158
     
  8. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    ****
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  9. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Another interesting read:


     
  10. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    These are facts which should not be ignored although most will gloss over and ignore it. Good post. In the late 1960s the FDA were court ordered to remove around 710 prescription drugs because they were either found to not be effective or dangerous. The FDA managed to find a loop hole which meant they could leave the drugs on the market or wait for their patents to expire and change the drugs to OTC(over the counter).

    That is nearly 50 percent of prescription drugs they don't know whether they are harmful or beneficial, which is disgraceful practice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  11. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

  12. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    There is a difference between TCM and proven herbs and natural supplements/compounds though. They seem to be constantly lumped into the same category because they are alternative.
     
  13. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Could be. That's generally because most TCM is based on compounds and herbs of one sort or another. However I've yet to see a single study that vindicates wiping out Tiger and Rhino populations for nonsensical solutions to health problems or prevention thereof.

    I really need to start a thread with all the news clippings from here in Asia where one TCM solution after the other is found after a dash of investigative journalism to actually worsen the problem.... either by no getting proper medical help when there was still time or by having dangerous levels of lead, cadmium or all sorts of other nonsense that ends up in their concoctions. It's not only westerners who find trouble with it. The Chinese themselves have a real problem with TCM because there is zero regulation or body that ensures the quality, quantity or efficacy of the ingredients.
     
  14. TheSource1969

    TheSource1969 Valued Member


    Why don't we agree to disagree. I think it's a waste of time debating something people have little knowledge. It would be different if the nonbelievers would read up on classical chinese medicine.
     
  15. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    Tigers and Rhinos ? Im talking about simple well studied botanicals such as korean ginseng which has over 3000 studies on its various benefits. Not hocus pocus magic such as tigers horns or whatever.

    Anyway i can't comment into TCM and how it derives its diagnostic principles, but i have studied many of the herbs they use.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You mean read up on the cures from Ancient medicine that still don't work? Somehow I do not think that would change much

    It is all about the paradigm - show then proof. With regards to the recent discussion , Rhizome took a stance that efficacy of the alternative was tantamount to an indictment of conventional medicine. He also stated a position of profit over patient that he could not justify.

    Alternative medicines either work or they do not - the fact they are "ancient" is no more convincing than a belief in humours
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Some proponents would argue otherwise about the efficacy of said compounds - and remember this thread is NOT about herbs it is about TCM (however diverting the chat was!) :)
     
  18. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    Herbs are a fundamental part of TCM so i do believe this section covers it :). Herbalism is actually a very large part of TCM if you want to get pedantic about it, as is Ayurveda. Which is also a traditional healing system which this section is about.

    As for what you wrote in the post before yawn, i have answered the above questions with my views more than 100 times. Ive yet to see any proof or answers from yourself, noticed you glossed over the post with the percentages of how efficient prescription medication really was.

    I have also posted double blind placebo controlled studies on a few herbs in this thread also for their various benefits for X condition. More than i have seen from you Hannibal might i add for all the disagreeing you do and comments about the lack of proof for efficiency.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually the post above my last was not meant for you, but you got a reply in as I was posting so that is why it look like old ground re-trodden

    One question, how do you reconcile increased life expectancy with an increase in exposure to modern methods in every area they have been introduced to if the non-conventional apprpatch is both safer AND as effective?
     
  20. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    Before i start with a reply to your question, where throughout this whole thread have i said alternative medicine was indeed both safer aswell as more effective?. I have said that modern medicine has its limitations in some conditions in which case alternative medicine happens to have options for which have been PROVEN to be beneficial and in some cases with less side effects(not all before you assume that i am saying that). I have shown you studies earlier in the thread, what have you shown me other than opinion and personal anecdotes, and somehow the ball is still in my court to provide more proof of efficiency.

    If you ignore double blind and other studies with proven efficiency for X property then you are ignoring all of medicine not just alternative.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012

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