INB4 "He's not teaching, he's showing the art, it's for you to decide what is useful and what to discard. Not everything that is taught is said or shown, you have to feel it. Hatsumi only plays nowadays. Learn to understand this is only an expression of Ninjutsu, not Ninjutsu itself. Groundwork is different from sport and competitive environments, it's all about defending yourself. Sometimes your hands might be tied, what then? Learn to defend against knives whilst in the dark maybe? What I learnt was the right way to do it but I'll find a video that I don't like that shows a poor example of something that looks similar".
i must ask at this point PR - why do you enjoy (or at least regularly post) on MAP? surely theres nothing for you here if you train with the source?
Oh we listen, we just hear the sound of bovine flatulence. Someone really hit you round the head with the kool-aid bottle, didn't they? I normally compare Ninjutsu to a pyramid scheme (because it is clearly and undeniably a pyramid scheme), but today, I'm getting more of a scientology vibe, which is more of a pyramid cult.
Good question. True Believers hate me because I don't toe the party line, some have been trying for years to figure out who I am since they don't like the "bad name" I'm giving the Bujinkan. Trolls want to troll, people who are clueless don't know where to begin, and I always get the rap for being a blue meanie. I guess I like dispelling myths and wanted some things on the record. Other than that, it's fun to read the dismay and disbelief in some of the responses. I guess I'm just a masochist at heart.:thinking:
Oh well, you can believe what you want, it's a free world. Plenty of people lived and died thinking the world was flat or that only witches could swim so you won't be the first. If you have anything particularly interesting or on topic to add, please let me know. Until then, I'll be enjoying my sake with the cherry blossoms, Kool Aid is for Americans with bad health choice issues.
dude Please Reality, are you really saying that the real "Special Ninjutsu" is super secret and not on camera. That sounds a little bit like a catch all excuse to explain any bad ninjutsu that you see. And a bit like the people that beleive in bigfoot, "just because there is no evidence available that he exists, doesnt mean he doesn, bigfoot just avoids cameras" im not trying to offend, just calling as i see it. And not saying all ninjutsu is bad. Just you know. As for creating cults of Haatsumi's back, saying "No one sees the real ninjutsu but the chosen few" sounds a little cultish.
I think you'll find you're the flat earther in this scenario. Can you at least see why this kind of reasoning is so absurd?
I would have to agree with PR here. I would probably guess that Hatsumi Sensei hasn't taught the real stuff since the early 80's, maybe like 1978. This is one of the reasons why I went with one of the original 6 shihan (Manaka, Tanemura Sensei, Ishizuka, Seno, Oguri [RIP], and Kobayashi [no longer trains]).
Its also tosh, it is absurd of PR to claim that Soke isn't teaching the real stuff and only teaching the secret stuff to a select few. These are exactly the claims con men make. "I and only I have the secret source" run a mile from people like that I say.
Strickly speaking on ninjutsu, which is not really taught in the Bujinkan, it is not open to just anyone. There are only a hand full of people that have received the full transmission of these schools. Most of what is taught is a mixture and variations of 5 schools (GKR, KTR, SFR, KSDHB, and TYR). It will only be taught by one of the hand full of shihan, who considers you their student (and that means not training with other shihan, because if you whore around you will not be considered a student of theirs). The majority of the Bujinkan believe they been taught the real Togakure-ryu and or seen it on one of the Quest videos. I have some news for them... I have a beach-front property in Arizona I would like to sell.
Why is it absurd? Seems pretty in keeping with the idea of protecting a tradition and it would go a long way in explaining the sub standard ability and knowledge that you see throughout the organisation. While I can understand you having a pop at PR due to how you feel, it's worth remembering that at no point has he said anyone e should train with him. If you have exposure to traditional arts, how they are taught and what they entail then it's easy to see why PR is saying what he is, it's also worth noting that Mr Kohler is echoing his sentiment.
Have a good look at old school systems and they do in many ways resemble a cult, of course the word cult automatically brings to mind a whole host of negative connotations but if you put those to one side you will see some similarities.
It's absurd to think Soke is spending the majority of his time and effort into his 80's when clearly he doesn't need the money, teaching something that he considers worthless. Think about. This year Soke is in fact saying he his taught us all he knows so we are starting again. Which is a good thing if you ask me, as I for one missed one or two points the first time around!!
He's taught you all he knows, yet you stand accused of having poor structure, poor attacks, a weak defence and the list goes on. I'd have thought as a 15th Dan you and others in your position would look as if they could strike a man down if he as much as blinked out of place. I've not seen that in you and it seems that no-one else commenting on this thread has either. You've been lead a lie and believed every word.
I don't think PR is saying that Hatsumi Sensei considers what he is teaching worthless. Just not the ryuha per se. He has secured those teachings already; the transmission will continue on. Now he is teaching principles and living his life doing what he loves.
I'll say this one more time for the record(this is like the 999th time by now). There are some videos of some things floating around, remember people used to be allowed to film training back in the day. However, by the time ninja and ninjutsu became a household name, the majority of the teaching had been completed. What motivation does Hatsumi sensei or anyone else have for divulging the secrets of the arts they were entrusted to to just any Tom, Dick, or Harry??:dunno: People he may see once a year, or a couple times a year, for a few classes and talk mind you. Would you teach someone like that all you know? Nothing cultish about it, just the facts. Doron and the Shihan learned it, Hayes and those following on his footsteps didn't for the most part. Nothing cultish about that, quite the opposite in fact. I never said I have the secret source, just pointed out how one might possibly get access to it. That's the difference between many and me. I say go to the Shihan since Hatsumi sensei doesn't teach anymore. He messes around doing what only he(usually) can, and let's idiots pretend that they understand or get his art when they are just making fools of themselves(and anybody dumb enough to be their student). Case in point, how can you call yourself a 10 dan or more if you don't know how the basics should be done for each level, same for the shoden of all the schools, and on and on(on up to okuden and kuden). I'm not a megadan, but I can tell you kuden for different ryu and how they relate to different aspects of the school(of course I wouldn't). Go ahead Jake, tell us all the ashirai kata and how to do them if you will....Or tell us which of the ryutai undo you'd use to get out of kesa gatame. Or how to do Koku correctly. Quite simple things, especially if one considers themselves a godan or above. Funny how some people understand even if they are no longer in the Bujinkan, whereas others cling to their dan and belief that Hatsumi sensei is only just now really teaching. I have a slow motion arm hanging out there with the answer to that fantasy.
