Shamrock interview. http://www.sherdog.com/videos/video...troversy-From-UFC-1-Loss-to-Royce-Gracie-5369 I had forgotten about the refs.
that's fine, but a conversation is a two way street. you can't have a conversation with someone else if they're not open to it. and instead we get: look at this evidence which (admittedly) stinks, but trust me, or come to japan. honestly, that gets really old after awhile. so we're left with people beating up on each other. i'll give you a great example: the sakki test. how many times have we heard that the cut is supposedly all the way to the ground. yet....not once have we seen evidence of this, even by hatsumi himself. so we're left with "trust me, come to japan". it is in the ninjutsu forum after all. i get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h34TOw02quM Look at the end of the video. All the way to the ground(filmed in Japan btw). So you were saying? You can't have a conversation about ninjutsu if all you know about ninjutsu comes from Youtube.
1. You have no proof that Rorion changed the brackets. 2. Everyone there was pretty highly qualified, much more than Royce. 3. That is his total BJJ record, across all levels of competition from the age of 8 to 18, as a black belt in BJJ he was 0-2 at the time, he had never competed in vale tudo before outside of a few challenge matches in Rorion's garage. 4. I have seen the documentary, but i personally find Davie's account more believable.
That's the first time I've seen powder throwing implemented at clost to realistic speeds. Thanks for posting it
The video shows all the way to the ground, but look closely, with leaves attached to the bokuto. This was done for training and to assist the seated in person in hearing the attack coming. Maybe not a "sakki test" in this one. Speaking of videos, it reminds me of the "challenge match" on the History channel show, Human Weapon. I think the one guy was a MMA guy or had a Judo background. PR, was the guys shown in the feature aware of the jujutsu and newaza you speak of? Great Shamrock video...he even said whether it was a set up or not the way Royce went through everyone so methodically was amazing. Cool of him to say that! Best, Todd Schweinhart
look, a real live unicorn in the garden! i'm doubting you can have a conversation period. also i have to say that again, you fail at providing video evidence. clearly hesitating with the "cut" and there were obvious attempts to help the user know the "cut" was coming.
That was part of a documentary on martial arts, it looks like they just picked up a branch and did it with that. If you ever try the test, please see if you can listen for the sound and react in time to not get clobbered. I wouldn't bet on it. Which guys, you mean the two Bujinkan megadan that took place in the mock competition? You would have to ask them what they know, both are very approachable. EDIT: that episode has been discussed in the ninjutsu forum before, you can search for it and it should come up pretty quickly. I think the big thread dedicated to it was a couple years ago.
i knew this conversation reminded me of something. well...here you go: mr. sparkle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-S5PZb8MJE
1) Named a book and a chapter, I believe it was Hannibal who quoted and posted an article with pretty much the same information. You have an issue with it, please present your counter argument and evidence. 2) Pretty? What does that mean? They had records fighting people in their own art's formats you mean? Just like Royce. We know that they couldn't afford the real high level competitors, as Art Davie's quote showed, so fail. 3) How do you know what that record shows? Did you verify that he never fought anyone other than bjj stylists before the UFC? It is well known that the Gracie's took challenges from other stylists whether on the beach, in the dojo, or the garage. 4) You believe that Davie came up with the idea? Well, him saying so would sell more books no doubt. You don't think Rorion had Rickson sign a contract that wouldn't let him fight in the US without his permission and him taking a 70% cut? Well, perhaps you are right but that is supposition. You also know that Rorion was sued by other family members for trying to control the use of the Gracie name and family logo?
1. Can't find it, refresh my memory, as a counter argument i offer Art Davie's book where he explicitly states that he was the sole matchmaker for the event. 2. Yes, as mixed martial arts didn't exist before the event, they could only find people who were qualified in single disciplines, i don't know what you expect beyond that, given that this was the very first time a mixed martial arts tournament had been conceived, further more, despite there being people with higher qualifications who wanted more money, there were still multiple world champions present, further more, no need to get snotty with me. 3. This is what the record has been stated to represent in multiple sources, i can provide them if you would like, i can show you footage pre UFC 1 of Royce fighting people in his brother's garage, but only a handful of matches, i haven't found a single credible source supporting your definition of it being a record of vale tudo competition. 4. I have heard so much muck slung between members of the family over various matters over the years i take all interpretations of the feud with a grain of salt as they always seem to completely exonerate people of blame in the feud, Davie presented one of the more plausible and less outlandish versions of the story, so i believe his, i also feel that while the litigation is a matter of record, it's relation to the incident is not proven.
PR, I took the test a long time ago my friend! I think it is pretty well known that Rorion is trying to make money from what he does as he thinks it has value. Hatsumi sensei is pretty well known for the same. Nothing wrong with promoting your art and assigning value to it. Some guys charge several hundred dollars for an hour of private training....and some pay it! Best, Todd Schweinhart
Royce has a pre-UFC record that is almost exclusively BJJ matches http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/royce-gracie He did fight jason Delucia pre-UFC, so we can say "Five Animal Kung Fu" experience and a loosely defined "kung fu" man, so we can add "hybrid" He did not fight one Savateur, Submission Wrestler or Boxer - or indeed anyone that actually did a style with a proven full contact pedigree So if you argument is "experience", Royce had the absolute LEAST of anyone going in
I think you're not getting what I said. I'm suggesting you find someone who IS open to conversation. Where you're clearly talking about persisting in conversation with someone who clearly isn't. I suggested you walk away in favour of greener pastures. You get that, yes?
As for the brackets, other than the one request to fight the boxer there were no changes. Frankly this was actually making it HARDER for Royce as it was the most competitive bracket by a mile There were no such accomodations in UFC 2 et al, so the argument is pretty moot anyway
If someone is refusing to engage in conversation, then surely that is there problem, for everyone else following the thread PR's conversation points are bringing up a whole host of interesting topics. PR is doing a good job of provoking debate with differing views, which in a forum is a good thing.
The thread has drifted quite a bit from its original topic, but while I was reading some old ones, I stumbled onto a post by one of Sharpstone's students:
That's a fair point, provided people are pursuing these new and interesting angles and not simply harping at a point that's never going to change. I see the same refrains being retreaded a lot in this thread.
