re niinpo and bjj

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Dead_pool, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Fine, 51-2. No biggie.

    It is an asinine argument, because all I said was that Rorion made the UFC as a Graciemercial and that he changed brackets so the UFC was not all that it was marketed to be. That is my argument in a nutshell, so deal with it. Not sure how that has turned into something else, but the facts are the facts. We are talking about a competition, not a street fight, that's the point. You can't necessarily research your opponent, nor can you necessarily safely straddle them or lay under them for minutes unmolested. If it is a competition, it should be as fair as possible or ADMIT THAT IT ISN'T and not make itself out to be some pure testing ground. Pretty simple.:hat:
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_Gracie

    theres 4 loses listed here

    edit - but these may of been after ufc 1!

    the general word is the royce has lost plenty before, but only on points untill after walid choked him unconscious.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  3. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    I stand corrected, 51-4(although it states his amateur record was 51-3 on the site you just quoted). Like I said, no biggie. The Gracie's have always had their own math when it comes to W's.

    It doesn't matter because Takamatsu sensei would've beat Carlos Gracie in the street and my dad can whup your dad so nah nah nah.:D Really, that is what this thread sounds like.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  4. JibranK

    JibranK Valued Member

  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Thats a strange angle to take, you want rules to change the reality of the situation to make it fair? Thats some tortuous logic to use, so is your end point that the BJJ fighters were unfair to the others because they had prepared properly?
    Or is this a strange attempt to define bjj as a sport thats only usefull against unprepared fighters?
     
  6. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    More to the point...

    Teila Tuli was a professional sumo, who had a winning record in 10 of his 14 tournaments.

    Gerard Gordeau was an 8 time dutch kyokushin karate champion, went to 3 kyokushin world championships, won 3 European and 1 world savate championships.

    Zane Frazier was a multiple time north american karate champion who had won 2 world titles in super heavyweight kickboxing and was undefeated at the time.

    Kevin Rosier had won 4 world titles in super heavyweight kickboxing.

    Art Jimmerson was an obscure light heavyweight/cruiserweight contender with a respectable record of 29-5, 2 of his losses being to champions Jeff Harding and Dennis Andries.

    Patrick Smith had won 1 world super heavyweight championship in kickboxing, but was apparently more noted for a good record as a taekwondo competitor, and a 2 time winner of the sabaki challenge.

    Ken Shamrock was the least experienced fighter there, but he had an undefeated record in "hybrid wrestling" and was the no.1 ranked fighter in the pancrase organization at the time.
     
  7. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Name a real sumo wrestler that fought in MMA.:rolleyes: Name a boxer in the first UFC who was spooked about losing his opportunity to make big bucks in his next boxing match. Name a guy with a broken hand and teeth in his foot(had he been healthy, that fight might've been interesting). Oh yeah, and a guy who had just flown from Japan to fight in the UFC.

    You're still missing the point...what were their records against jujutsuka?
     
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Teach me how to read Portuguese and i'll tell you as much as i can find.

    Further more, i've already told you that at black belt competition, royce was 0-2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  9. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    What was anybodies 21 year ago?
     
  10. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    The reality of the situation is what I've been saying all along. Royce's older brother set up the UFC to promote GJJ. He was the brainchild behind it and also changed brackets. The caliber of fighter back then is not even close to what it is today.
     
  11. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Royce wasn't fighting jujutsu practitioners, they were. Akebono is the answer to the Sumo question, and the other three guys you already know because they were in UFC1.
     
  12. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Also, i'd like to just point out that Jimmerson's next fight was a mere tune up against Cruiserweight champion Orlin Norris 10 months later, Norris didn't even put his belt up against Jimmerson.
     
  13. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    So, by that logic, a Ninjer who's never fought a Jiu Jitsu practitioner will automatically lose because Rickson by armbar?
     
  14. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Zilch. And that's the point they were making.

    It wasn't just a promo for Gracie jujitsu or BJJ in general. It was reminding the rest of the fighting world that "We don't even need to be decent strikers you all suck so badly at submission grappling (except judo). Heck, Royce can beat you, we don't even need to pull out anyone better."

    They put their money where their mouths were and fought in an open rules competition to prove that submission grappling was a necessary part of being a complete fighter. They just happened to have virtually cornered the market on effective newaza.
     
  15. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Ninjer usually loses because.
    Takamatsuden has jujutsu. The logic was already pointed out pages ago, the unknown is often difficult to deal with until it becomes known(of course it's no longer unknown by then though).
     
  16. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    It was much less of a conspiracy than it was a gamble, "Cough" Kimo "Cough"
     
  17. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    At submission grappling, sure. Because those people had never done submission grappling. It would be like taking someone who hadn't ice skated and having a hockey player beat them up in the rink.

    Had they faced the right caliber of striker who knows? Obviously had they faced better strikers with some ground experience, we know what would've happened as MMA now shows.
     
  18. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    So, you resent Royce because he was the first person to illustrate the need for grappling to a western audience?
     
  19. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    As others have said there were professional level strikers in the competition. They got beaten.

    You're crying because the Gracies being better trained, better prepared, and having a greater understanding of fighting meant they won? That's not exactly cheating RP. That's being a better fighter.
     
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ken shamrock had never done submission wrestling?
     

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