RBSD Self Defense = Useless

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by cluebird, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    I've done the martial arts for a while, and in my opinion, training for multiple attacker scenarios is almost useless.

    I would say that if someone is looking to train for multiple attackers, they should train ways to defend themselves against multiple attackers, but not scenarios .

    One of the reasons why it is better just to train against single attackers is because they can usually train alive, with sparring. Some of the techniques that people train in RBSD, Krav Maga, etc. can not even be used safely in the dojo, so they are never tried on real opponents. I think we can all agree that if you can't use it against one person, it's likely that it won't work when his buddy is kicking you in the head.

    I think someone trained in 1-on-1 fighting, i.e. karate, kung fu, judo, MMA, whatever, then he/she would have a better chance of defending himself against multiple opponents.

    Not to say that learning the tactics to defend against multiple attackers isn't good, but training specifically in situational combat sequences just isn't very helpful.

    Training a system that has been simplified or brought to semi-safe levels that can be practices against alive opponents is better, because you can adapt those techniques to be fatal or maiming. For example many judo techniques were derived from ju-jutsu, and to throw the ju-jutsu finisher back on the end isn't that hard. That way you get the aliveness of Judo practice, with the damaging attacks of JJJ.

    Besides, you may be able to handle yourself against about six people maximum in any situation, more than that and you're screwed anyways.




    Anybody else have thoughts along the same lines or differently? Opinions or comments are welcome.


    P.S. My qualm is with situational methods, not general (this is what you may want to do if there are multiple guys around, i.e. isolation techniques).
     
  2. angacam

    angacam Mare Est Vita Mea

    What makes you think you can not train with multiple attackers in an alive manner? The Isreali Defense force does it as does the Marine Corp and I would venture to say most military training deals with it. You simply need protective equipment to lessen injuries. One on one is not the same as one on two or three. Yes some of the same techniques may apply but the situational awareness is very different.

    Oh, and how long is awhile now anyway?
     
  3. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Quote - What he said above!

    and

    "I've done the martial arts for a while"


    Done what styles and to what grades and recognised by what authority. That's a pretty sweeping statement so I was wondering what you could say that would support it???
     
  4. SteelyPhil

    SteelyPhil Messiah of Lovelamb

    more importantly i'd say: Have you done any KM or RBSD?
     
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    I'm just curious if anyone... the OP... included can post a vid of them or anyone dealing with six attackers? :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
  6. SteelyPhil

    SteelyPhil Messiah of Lovelamb

    I'll go kick off on a group of chavs and ask a mate to record it :)
     
  7. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    Wait, so you guys think that those arts such as Krav Maga and RBSD train you to deal with adrenaline and the fear of attack more than any other art?

    Also, you think that being in a training gym with pads on and no real fear of getting hurt is the same as fighting a guy on the street who wants to shank you?
     
  8. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    I'm saying that multiple attackers is exactly what the Krav and RBSD guys think they can handle. Not that they can.

    I've trained karate, am training judo, and know a bit about Aikido. My uncle was Sandan.
     
  9. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    Yes which is what I said. Did you read the whole post. The strategy in Krav and RBSD is useful, but not to the point where a whole art should be based off of it.
     
  10. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Where did I say that exactly? :)

    As above and it makes for a short lesson dunnit, lets see how much you could charge a "session" for that. :)

    Mr cluebird - or whatever, before we go off the deep end here, I just checked your profile and you said you did Judo and you're only 27 now, I just wanted some justification to your statement - I don't want a row with you. I just wanted some clarity, please be good enough to provide what you base your statement on as I am sure some higher and more experienced grades here are waiting to get your interpretation. :)
     
  11. wild_pitch

    wild_pitch Melt The Guns!

    Psst..

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQtGdohjfus"]YouTube[/ame]
     
  12. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --


    Which is what I'm saying. Why bother train if you can't train fully alive.
     
  13. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

  14. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Oh well - thats the end of that then. Thats pretty much the end of the thread don't you think?

    Maybe you should ask more open questions then you won't be misinterpreted and you will feel it more necessary to ask for other peoples opinions, I mean, that's what this forum is for afterall :)

    However, your opinion may not be the only one to consider...I leave you to pinder on that - me dinners nearly ready...
     
  15. angacam

    angacam Mare Est Vita Mea

    This does not awnser my original question to you, what is your experience? 2 months each, 1 year each, Your Uncle being a Sandan has no bearing on your experience. I mean really, knowing "a bit about Aikido" means nothing many of the concepts of Aiki take years to understand fully.
     
  16. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    3.5 years karate. 1 year tkd. Recently started judo.
     
  17. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Funny, don't see any mention of Krav, Haganah, or any other RSBD system. Go figure. What, you didn't like the episode of the "Human Weapon"?

    Tell that to the Israeli military.

    Either way, your opinions, such as they are, will be taken considering what little authority they possess.
     
  18. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --


    And I'm sure that the techniques and training methods in the Israeli army differ (at least a tiny bit :rolleyes: ) from your RBSD clinic at the community center?
     
  19. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I would challenge this statement. The majority of Armed Forces around the world do not include unarmed combat skills in their routine/regular training.

    The only exceptions off of the top of my head I can think of is the USMC, Israeli Armed Forces and the Philipino Armed Forces.

    The tendency is for them to focus more on the 'Armed' part.
     
  20. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    That it?

    Jeez, I am a bit disappointed to say the least. Perhaps your uncle would be the best person to make this remark and if your parroting them then please ask them to fully explain it and get back to us. I am not saying your thoughts are not considered, but I have more experience in one style that you do in 3 and even I don't make such a rash statement.

    I have watched lots of different styles but don't make sweeping statements like yours!!
     

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