Rapists- Deserving of mercy?

I'm sorry to hear that. It's good that you didn't die or go blind. But I fail to see what bearing this has on the subject of rape or how to develop laws to punish rapists. Attempting to draw comparisons to dogs that bite and rapists is ludicrous.

errm... this still has noting to do with the thread at hand. At best it's a diatribe against dogs that bite becuase you yourself was bitten by a dog as a child. Again... Attempting to draw comparisons to dogs and rapists is ludicrous.

Attempting to formulate criminal law for humans (specifically rapists) based on your own misinformation regarding the behavior of dogs is beyond ludicrous... it's completely retarded.

This is so funny it warrants a thread of it's own.

I'll start one and quote you... hope you don't mind.

Sigh...
MarioBro...
please stay with us here...
just because I didn't jump in with a kneejerk reaction like some of the people on this thread and jump on the lynch mob bandwagon doesn't mean that I sympathize with rapist's over their victims.

I suggest you go back and read through the 18 or so pages of post's and try to understand that the issue is serious enough to warrant more than just a kneejerk reaction.

In fact why not post something informative and insightful?

Because you got attacked by a dog as a kid and now mistakenly believe that dogs can develop 'a taste for blood' and so now any dog that bites anyone should be executed is not exactly informative or insightful.

Furthermore to try to draw comparisons to rapists based on your misinformation or ignorance of an animals behavior would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic. :bang:

 

I think when I asked that question all of your post was not completed or I missed it, in any event I didn't respond to all of your post and I apologize for that.

First, I certainly don't agree with any group in a historical context or in current society eliminating or attempting to eliminate any other group because they believe them to be "sub human."

And no I don't consider rapists or molesters to be sub human but I consider them to be sick individuals who need treatment. They should recieve this "treatment" in the penal institution.

 

I've been talking to my friend about your suggestion and she's said that she'd want the person who raped her to have the same treatment what he did to her. She'd like the folk who seved in prison with him to do the same thing to him and she'd like to put a weapon inside him to finish him afterwards. It's really made her angry with the system and she doesn't trust herself in the same place as him, she'd really like to set him up for the same stuff he did to her at the time of the rape.



I'd like to also put this thought in your mind as well, what about the folk who's into S & M, if they like a lot of the rough stuff within the sexual side is this wrong or not. I do know someone who's into almost rape in the text of power being given over with full permission of both parties. Would this be seen in the same light or not or is it ok for the people involved as long as no one gets into real danger.
lisa xx

 

let's try to keep the thread on track here... the whole S&M thing delves into a completely different issue. It deserves a thread of it's own.

 

Glad you said "most" and not all as I know of situations where a person involved in self defense ended up serving time. I'll try to keep this on track with the thread as much as I can as it is about rapists and not murderers per se. Rapists can become murders though and I think that only further intensifies the atrocity of their crime. But as far as murderers being allowed to reenter society that depends on their crime. When you say "standard" killing I'm assuming you mean killing and it not being a self defense scenario. The thread would go completely off track if I begin to go into detail about different scenarios like an argument that out of control or things of that nature. One key thing that I will say is that keep in mind how details make a difference, if two guys get into an argument and start shouting at each other and one guy pushes the other guy and they start fighting the guy who made the initial push may have had no intention of killing the other guy but that might happen. And there the difference lies. You can't accidentally rape someone. Either you intend to and you do it or you don't. There's no accident or lapse in judgement. Either your a sick individual or you aren't. So why would we want to run the risk that you might do it again. In the situation of a murderer we may have to look at different details. In rape we only have two. Was someone forced into a sexual encounter against their will? And secondly how are we going to punish the individual who forced them into that situation?

 

Interesting point, one that I never considered in my call for life incaration. However I think the threat of life imprisonment will encourage more individuals not to commit rape than to attempt murder after commiting rape to avoid identification. I think individuals who are thinking along those lines will commit murders anyway even without life imprisonment sentences because this is their mentality. Just my opinion.

 

Yeah I thought that seemed a little strange also. But I thought the first part of her post was completely on point. Anyways thanks for answering my question.

 

And I thought that rape was the topic !!!!!.

There are some folk who like to be involved in almost being raped for sexual power. This is also part of rape but in a different text.
lisa xx

 

I get to pull the "blameless card", Mario my boy.

I don't bill clients.

Yup, you read that correctly. I am an Assistant Public Defender, which means that the county I work for pays me significantly less than I would be making if I were in private practice to defend the people you want to lynch. This would be why people like me exist, because of knee-jerk people like you.

If you can only give knee-jerk reactions, by the way, step off the thread for a bit, you're beginning to look foolish.

 

Interesting, I've almost never heard of this before. All the accounts I've heard seem to be that the victims don't want to take physical revenge. Not that I'm saying that your friend isn't wrong, hell if it would help her recover i'd hand her a baseball bat with a nail through it myself and hold the guy still for her.

The problem is that this goes down a slippery path and I am entirely against allowing the victim to make decisions on the sentencing of there attackers.

 

Anger has a great deal to do with it, she trusted the same system which allowed him to get away with rape through the courts. She's not allowed to go through another court case as it's got to have more evidence provided and as she told them everything she's not able to do this. She still feels very angry at the system and the solicitors who defended him as they knew he was guily and they even told him to plead guilty but he wouldn't. It's just unfair that the jury never heard everything and the deals which had been made before the case started.
She would be quite willing to go through another court case just to prove that she's telling the truth about the rape but the system stinks as it protects the rapists first and not the person who's gone through it all.
She does hate the guy and always will until he dies and only then will she be able to go forward with her life.
lisa xx

 

I'll try it from another angle. Do you agree there is a difference in rape-offenders, like there is in murderers ??? There are those that were molested, abused etc. in their childhood and suffered massive psychological and emotional damage because of it, and there are those who are just inclined to commiting these offenses because they feel the need to. These are the most dangerous kind of rapists... they are like serial-killers. Sociopaths is the correct term I believe.

Do you see my point ??? Just as there is a difference in murderers, there is also a difference in rapists. Not all cases are the same, and every case needs to be looked upon with the utmost care.

Sorry, the reasoning is just too black and white. Why should we run the risk of setting a murderer free. Statistics will probably show that most murderers killed again after their release from custody.

 

Uhm, point of order, just to be a pain in the butt, you can actually "accidentally" rape someone. Many states have rape laws which specifically state that people under a certain age cannot give consent to perform any sexual act, and the age is usually in the teens. So if you're say 15 and at a party, and you see a cute girl with a drink on one hand and a cig in the other and think "hey, she smokes, she drinks, and she's really cool" and she says "I'm X years old" but it turns out that mommy and daddy find out she was whoring around, call the cops, and it turns out she was Y years old, you're now a rapist. By mistake. And you now have the same stigma, penalties and crap that goes along with Mr. Pervy who diddled his 5 year old neighbor or use force to get some from the lady who delivered his pizza.

So, we gonna stone them too?

 

Legally that 15 year old is considered a rapist, and fair enough that you're looking at it from a legal point of view, considering your career.

But the fact is, in practical conversation, when someone says "Rapists" I don't think "15 year old that accidently fell into a legal dilema" I think "One of the five guys that mentally destroyed, and physically harmed someone I care about. Teamed up against her 5-to-1 and put her through years of suffering."

So in a broader spectrum, yes you can't just stone anyone who falls under the umbrella term that is "rapist" but in reference to one of the 5 guys I mentioned, or similar people, I would have no guilt pulling the trigger in their face. Good luck trying to convince me that it can possibly be accidental when 5 adults rape a teenager.

If I could legally get away with killing every single one of those guys, I would do it without a split second of hesitation.

Obviously that isn't a realistic thing. I can't shoot anyone I want, nor can I shoot someone if I am not God because I don't know for sure who did what.

But for the purpose of the question "Do rapists (referencing what I usually perceive as a rapist) deserve mercy ?" I think my total lack of compassion for these people is acurately described in my wish to see them dead.

 

So, you do not bill clients, wow. Still your success rate in your cases will determine your future. If this is not the case, then I guess you just have a desire to defend rapists and pedophiles because they are simply misunderstood victims of their upbringing, and therefore they deserve second, third, fourth chances to do it all over again in the hopes that they fall into the group that does not re-offend.

Knee-jerk reactions? Looking foolish? You are entitled to your opinions, but since you swing toward the side of exposing the public (our wives, our children, etc) to the risk of being a victim, whereas I would prefer to not have that increased risk just because pedophiles and rapists 'might' be cured, I do not feel like the foolish one nor do I feel knee-jerky...lol.

But feel free to keep throwing out those phrases if they make you feel better about your job.

 

First of I want to make something clear on my opinions concerning murderers. I do not for the most part object to them recieving life sentences also. It's only in few selected circumstances that I feel a murderer should do less than life or in some situations not do any time at all. But again that's not your,"I asked for his watch but he didn't give it to me so I shot him, I didn't mean to kill him though." That's obviously not who I am reffering to. But not all murders are like this as you correctly pointed out as there are different kinds of murderers there are also different kinds of rapists.

You gave an example of a rape victim turning rapist due to trama, here's my take:

If an individual was raped as a child than the perpetrator needs to be imprisoned. If the victim obviously traumatized grows up to be a rapist themselves than they also need to be incarcerated. I know it sounds unfair and that's because it is. But unfortuanetly that's the way life is sometimes. If we allow an individual who rapes someone to be released than they may rape again. If they do they will create new traumatized victims to continue the cycle that you have described. It has to stop somewhere.

As for releasing murderers but not releasing rapists I repeat my earlier point murder can occur accidentally, rape (excluding BaiKaiGuy's scenario which I will address in a minute) cannot.

 

A brief confession. I was in class last week working with two females that I had never seen before. We do jui jitsu so by our nature are always up close and personal. Anyway there was one girl who after we finished and she got dressed she looked, well let's just say she looked older than she was. When I found out how old she was a few days ago I was extremely surprised. So I can relate to someone being confused about someone's age, even misled if the person actually lies which happens quite often.
BendzR mentioned a situation that I am unfortuantly familiar with. Except my cousin was only 14 when it happened to her. Yes I felt rage. Yes I wanted them to suffer period. But BaiKaiGuy to answer your question I would not hold the same anger towards a man who made an honest mistake versus a man who slams a woman up against something, rips at her clothes and rapes her. Wow I love how these examples of accidental versus intentional actions keep coming up only further illustrating my point. Get it people? There is a difference between an "accident" of any kind and a deliberate attempt to cause another harm.

 

Of course there is and I would never say that all rapes fall under the same category. Unless you are a defense lawyer of course.

 

Mario Bro,

Give it a rest already. Your swipes at people who have been contributing more than just knee jerk reactions are as weak as they are silly.

It sounds as if you haven't got the slightest clue regarding how a public defenders job works. You've already shown a gross misunderstanding in the way animals behave and how animal control law is developed and applied. Your attempt to formulate laws and punishment for rapists based on dogs was hilarious enough to merit a new thread.

So it'd be best to hush unless you enjoy looking so silly.

 

And it sounds like you have no clue about anything at all. I was not trying to formulate any theories about laws and punishment based on dogs, so that just goes to prove you cannot even understand what you are reading. I know you do not understand metaphors so I guess that explains your continuing on this path. I do not hate dogs. As I said I begged for them to spare the dog that bit me, and I can actually forgive a dog more than I can a murderer, rapist or pedophile. So drop the dog crap already...it is insignificant to the point of this thread.

And now to make yourself sound even sillier than I already know you are, you decide to throw the 'knee jerk' phrase in there too. No clue about how a public defenders job works? It is not a big stretch of the imagination, but just to humour you since you obviously find it complicated, some quotes from Google searches:

Like that was not already all obvious. So you can give it a rest, hush, stop taking swipes at people, etc. And while you are at it, maybe stop with the arrogant posts like that as if you are just the smartest person there could be...THAT really makes you look silly.

I can totally appreciate the job of a public defender, and I understand they must believe in what they do and that they are actually defending innocent people or that there were extenuating circumstances, etc. or else the job would eat away at the moral fabric of a person. And in many cases they are defending innocent people, people who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. and that is very admirable.

But there are those times that they absolutely know that they are defending a murdering scumbag, a disgustingly sick pedophile or an uncontrollable rapist and they still must do their job to the best of their ability whether they want to or not. This is the only reason I hold some issue with BaiKaiGuy's posts as I think he may be slightly biased because he really has to be.

DO NOT RESPOND WITH ANYTHING ABOUT DOGS PLEASE. Unless you still have nothing intelligent of your own to add to the discussion.