Rank respect

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by ShadowWarrior, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. gemtkd

    gemtkd Valued Member

    I definitely agree with Cavallin!!

    No one understands being taught off of someone young who is much higher than them, until they actually give it a chance.

    Thats difficult for newbies, but certainly not for someone who has been training a while.

    You'll get your respect!! Might have to be a little bit patient!!
     
  2. trump

    trump Banned Banned

    As a black belt in marshal arts other lower graded students should show you respect in the time honored way of bowing. Simple. no ifs or buts.
     
  3. Another Muay Thai Guy

    Another Muay Thai Guy Valued member

    I'm sure they do bow to him, it doesn't automatically mean that they are respecting him by doing it though. I could go bow to some real evil person I hate, if you treat it as just an action, it doesn't mean anything.
     
  4. trump

    trump Banned Banned

    If your bow doesn't mean anything to you, you are not a worthy marital artist! a bow comes from the heart. :bang:
     
  5. TraditionalTKD

    TraditionalTKD New Member

    In my opinion, one of the reasons why you do not get the respect you think you deserve is because you are 15 years old. In the eyes of many, especially the adults, you are a child. It doesn't matter how good you are or what skills you possess, a 15 year old boy is a child. That is something that will only be overcome with age, maturity, and experience.
    There is a difference between the respect a talented black belt gets and the respect a teacher gets. A talented black belt (and I'm not saying you don't have talent by the way) will be respected because of what they are able to do with their body-their physical technique. But a good teacher is respected for entirely different reasons, reasons that go way beyond simple physical technique. Reasons that a 15 year old cannot hope to accomplish until he is older, wiser, more mature, and has shown the fruits of his teaching (his students). This takes years of consistant effort.
    My opinion? I believe if your father was unable to consistantly be a presence in class due to his schedule, he should have closed the class until further notice. He could have either reopened it later on or given you the responsibilities when you are eligible rank-wise and old enough to handle the duties. A 15 year old cannot be the main teacher in a class.
     
  6. Another Muay Thai Guy

    Another Muay Thai Guy Valued member

    Please re-read my original post. At no point did I say that bowing to my instructor or fellow students meant nothing to me. What I did say however, is that if the bow were seen simply as a movement by someone, and not understood to any deeper meaning, then it is simply that, just a movement. It's not as if your body doesn't allow you to bow if you don't really understand what it represents. And also, please cut the crap about calling me unworthy of my art. Thank you.
     
  7. trump

    trump Banned Banned

    In that case Shadow Warrior’s students are not worthy of marshal arts for not having respect in their bowing.
    What makes you worthy?
     
  8. Another Muay Thai Guy

    Another Muay Thai Guy Valued member

    Firstly, I also never said that Shadow Warrior's students didn't bow with respect, I was simply replying to your comment that bowing is always done with total respect, to which I explained that is not necessarily always the case.
    As for what makes me worthy of my art? I train at every available opportunity in class unless I am seriously ill or injured (I think since I first started over 3 years ago I have maybe missed 5 classes maximum). I also train at home when I can. I have never failed a grading, or indeed never got anything below a "good" pass. I also like to investigate the roots of TKD and how it evolved, and is indeed, still evolving, to name a few things off the top of my head.
    I am not seriously offended by your statement, I just ask that next time you think before you post.
     
  9. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    And more importantly than any time, qualifications or "regardless of illness" training, the tone of your posts indicates that you have committed to it with your heart.

    Mitch
     
  10. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    A. = MARSHAL ARTS? LMAO!

    B. = Why? just because the color of the cloth holding up their pants is darker than yours? if they haven't earned respect with blood sweat and skill, they don't get it. simple.
     
  11. TraditionalTKD

    TraditionalTKD New Member

    Because you respect the rank if nothing else. In the military, you respect a superior officer due to the rank he holds, regardless of any physical advantage you might have over him. He is still a superior officer. In martial arts, you respect a higher ranked student irregardless of which of you is stronger, older, faster etc.
    My instructor has known plenty of fellow students he personally could not stand. But he always respected the rank they wore around their waist because they earned it.
     
  12. trump

    trump Banned Banned

    Yes that is how it is important to respect rank. In the US Army where the officers are not generally very good, it is very important that the soldiers show respect, the same should apply in the dojung.
     
  13. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member


    well, if the instructor is not very good, there won't be any time to respect him/her, because i'll be on my way finding another school with a good instructor.
     
  14. TraditionalTKD

    TraditionalTKD New Member

    I meant respecting the rank of a superior student in a class you attend. if you do not attend class, their rank would be irrelevent. The original post was about students in class not respecting his rank. As a black belt (if my memory serves me correct), he is entitled to a certain amount of respect from other students by virtue of the fact that he is a black belt. Whether or not they respect him is a different matter.
     
  15. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    Wow, you've posted nothing but generalized uneducated opinions since you got here. first MMA and now the army? geeze, you're just setting yourself up to be the victim of a hate crime.

    Can you back that statement up?
     
  16. rtkd-badger

    rtkd-badger Fundimentaly Manipulated

    I was recently promoted to assistant instructor as I was the most reliable student with a 100% attendence and my instructor has a sick family member which sometimes stops him from coming to class.
    There are other students who rank higher but he gave the position to me.
    The first time I ran the class on my own I could see people looking down there noses at me and only training half hearted, snickering among themselves.
    So I handed the class over to them.
    Everything went pearshaped and within 10 mins they handed it back.
    It has nothing to do with rank, it is whether you have the ability to teach.
    Try using the students who look down on you to demonstrate things, give them a roll to play in class, thank them when help you and when they train hard. If they still look down at you apoligise for dissapointing them and move on. Be humble
     
  17. ShadowWarrior

    ShadowWarrior Valued Member

    Sorry all I have just got back from a holiday and training session at the beach (you should try training on the sand. its very difficult).
    Thank you all for your inputs.

    This is kind of the same story that has happened to me, except my father is focusing on his black belt training now, also family is sick so he is spending more time with his parents.

    About the bowing business...there is deleted all in my club! Members will bow to the adults and the adults will bow to each other, everyone will bow to other black belts, but the only time they will bow to me is at the start of the class when we bow in and say the oath.
    But they will bow to adults, or other black belts before they talk to them or want to know a question.but if its me, "oi, Ryan, what is this move, how do i preform it, etc.." no bow or anything.
    Thats just disrespectful and they wouldnt do it anywhere else so why do they do that to me.

    Also, the members in my club do not call me by my correct title, but if they go to another club they will use the correct korean term, boosabum, sabum, etc...
    Shouldn't they be calling me boosabum, im a 1st dan black belt, i come under that title, why don't i get to be called that?

    Thanks everyone so far for your input and help.
    I know that i will get on top of things. I have the will and determination to do it.

    Taekwon
    Ryan O'Hara




    neryo_tkd; edit note: inappropriate word deleted
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2005
  18. rtkd-badger

    rtkd-badger Fundimentaly Manipulated

    Why do they do it to you????
    Because you let them ;)
     
  19. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    My understanding is that, in Korean tradition, a black belt should not be the head instructor of a dojang unless he/she is at least sa-dan (4th degree) and with the explicit consent of his/her sabumnim. In your case, you would be considered a kyosanim.

    Generally speaking, once they receive their black belts, there are quite a few who believe that they can just go independent and run a dojang. It's not that cut & dry. Black belt is just completion of the basics, but there is much more training to endure. There is more material to learn. Perhaps that is the reason that kwanjangnim & sabumnim do not permit their students to continue their tradition somewhat unsupervised until they've matured to at least sa-dan.

    You should still be training & affiliated with a master instructor for a number of reasons:

    -to keep your skills-set up-to-date;

    -to advance your knowledge;

    -to allow your students the opportunity to eventually earn their dan ranks (as you are not permitted to grade them at black belt levels);

    -etc.

    In the end, it's not as if you're holding a gun to their heads :woo:

    They, as adults, have the right to choose whether they stay or go.

    If they don't like you as their instructor, they should simply leave. There are plenty of TKD dojangs, as even the "reliable" Yellow Pages (TM) will advertise (quality notwithstanding).

    If they are set on staying with you, then they should act with some sense of decorum and just "get over it" :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  20. TKD_Student

    TKD_Student New Member

    Ya know, you should come over and help teach our class. The black belts there are occasionally strict, and put people back in line. We have a 2nd Dan called Nick in my group, and everyone respects him, they listen to him if he is telling us stuff when our other teacher is doing something else. No-one disrespects the black belts/seniors :D

    He has recently been helping the orange belts with things to do on their grading.

    Everyone is so respectful in my class, but you are of a young age, and maybe people are used to being a taught by a more experienced martial arts expert, one you could say who has more years of wisdom in them lol.

    I hope things have been getting better for you, be strong, and teach them well.
     

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