quick question

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Jondo, May 11, 2007.

  1. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    hey whats up i do tae kwon do with a mix of open hand techniques and ive been doing zhan zhuang(hope i spelled that right) and "pushing the mountain" iron body technique. what other techniques would be good to add to my workout?
     
  2. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Wait

    You do TKD, and you are practicing zhan zhuang and doing pushing mountains, like this:

    [​IMG]

    Why exactly are you doing this? I'm not questioning the value of these movements, as I have done a bit of chi kung myself. However, I would think that practicing zhan zhuang and pushing mountains would yeild little results unless it was practiced along with other movements and postures. Like a routine.

    Plus, you need proper instruction to really be able to do these postures properly. Do you know anything about breathing, or the Dan Tien?

    Honestly, due to the fact that you are practicing TKD, you would probably be better served by standing in a horse stance than by practicing zhan zhuang, and I think you would be better served by practicing your footwork in a side stance or front stance, or practicing your basics several times (try doing 1000 reverse punches or middle blocks in a high horse stance, without stopping).

    On the other hand, if you are generally interested in the Chi Kung stuff, you should think about trying a new art that contains Chi Kung and standing practice - that is how you could benefit best from those postures.

    On the other hand . . . :) . . . you might consider purchasing this book if you want to learn more about Chi Kung, it's very simple and contains a good bit of useful information.

    http://www.amazon.com/Art-Chi-Kung-...3247346?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178847977&sr=1-3

    Good luck in your endeavors.
     
  3. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    hmm i guess your right i just found the those 2 techniques to get the blood pumping after a long workout. i thought zhang zhuang was for building muscle. same with mountain pushing. and yea its like the picture. as far as breathing goes its the standard breathe in through nose, hold, exhale with mouth when pushing out. and zhang zhuang is like meditation breathing standing up right?(with the proper body posture of course)
     
  4. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    scratch what i said about looking like the picture, its more like horseriding stance, but when you push out you concentrate and flex all your mucles. its not so relaxed as that picture its more like bruce lee after he roundhouse kicks some1 you know the classic.

    WOOOOWWWOOOOO!!!!
     
  5. Sandus

    Sandus Moved Himself On

    You still haven't answered the question of why. What do you hope to accomplish through this combination of techniques?
     
  6. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Those two exercises are meant to cultivate chi and build internal strength (I think). Zhan Zhuang is standing meditation, as far as I know.

    Were you instructed on how to perform pushing mountains? You may be supposed to use dynamic tension during the exercise, you may not. I don't know.
     
  7. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    You are right Yohan,
    Zhan Zhuang is meant to relax the mind and body teaching to use proper postural alignment for the IMA i.e. alignment and stretching of the spine, lining up the knees, practicing centering ones balance and (Please don't make a huge deal of this) but yes build Qi.

    Zhan Zhuang does have some movements associated with it (depending on the teachers) but for the most part is done stationary and with no muscular tension.

    I am not a TKD practitioner nor have I ever, so I am unsure of how this will supplement training. It could actually on one hand be detrimental considering you are not to use muscular tension. However, as mentioned after practice it can help regulate the body and move blood and Qi to relax the body and soothe the organs after a vigorous workout. Also it can help with balance, but that will only be achieved by having a good teacher constantly watching you and fixing it when muscles get too tight etc. Throwing one off balance. Hope it helps
     
  8. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    i dont buid tension in my mucles with zhang zhuang only on mountain pushing, but i make sure that i do it right, or id rather not train at all.
    i only do two zhang stances, the both put your legs and arms in awkward positions and your legs really feel the burn cause your bassically sitting in midair with your hands in the position correct for the stance.

    zhan zhaung: the forms i do really just to work out my legs(along with my own personal leg training) plus its relaxing yet painful

    and the mountain pushing, once your able to flex your entire body to the maximum its pretty easy to focus in right before you hit some1, i dont know if its control of blood flow or what, but i freaked out my friends because im pretty skinny(but tall) and i used the focus i learned from the mountain technique to see strong id gotten from training and it was like regular flexing but my muscles got alot bigger than seemed normal, it looked like i had gained 20-30pounds of muscle and my veins really stuck out. i know this is kind off topic but has anyone heard of something like that before. it sounds to me like some from an iron shirt technique but i dont know to much about internal martial arts other than to not let a tai chi guy hit your solar plexus.
     
  9. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    What do you mean by awkward positions?"Post" training can be painful, but your positioning should be lawful alignment of the body's joints.If the position itself doesn't correctly align your knees, pelvis, spine, etc., something's wrong.The only pain should be your legs get tired after you pass whatever level of endurance you've built up to.

    Basic post training can be practiced by anyone, including non MAs, as it does have anectdotal health benefits, and at least one scientifically verified one.It is, however, used to facilitate later nei gung (power development) exercises.There are a lot of things you can do inside your body as you practice if you're taught how.At its most basic it is still good for relaxation/alignment awareness.There is no reason it would be detrimental to your practice of whatever system you study, be it TKD,HI, or BJJ.

    I still am concerned over the "awkward' thing.Barring that, since I can't see what you're doing, I normally would say you should stand for at least 20 minutes to an hour daily.

    Also, post training is just that.Standing like a stake, or post.The only movement would be on the inside. Once you start doing visible external movement,you are no longer doing zhang zhuang.

    Once last tidbit, speaking as a TC boxer.Don't get hit in the solar plexus by anyone. :D
     
  10. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    guess i wasnt doing it right then, but who cares the way i was doing it ripped up my legs(in a good way). lol so i guess its a physically building stance ive been doing that was just attempts at internal stuff. lol i guess once an external fighter always an external fighter.
     
  11. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Well, "who cares" should be you as you can screw up your joints, esp knees.You can develop a lot of leg strength through improper training and do damage that may not come to the fore for some time.

    "Hey, see how much power I've developed through squatting?"

    "Wow, your form is terrible when you squat.Doesn't that make you hurt?"

    "Oh! So that's why I had to have plastic knee replacements!"

    Not an admonishment, just friendly advice.Believe me, you don't want bad joints.
     
  12. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    really, wow i didnt think that the joints were that vulnerable. being 16 i have no experience with plastic joints(lol) but if those are bad for me then what else can i do to shape my legs other then kicking?
     
  13. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Well, I wouldn't be concerned about "shaping" your legs unless you're going into competitive bodybuilding.As a MA, you should be concerned w/function. not looks.

    For different kinds of endurance-running, cycling,stance work,footwork.

    For raw power type strength and explosiveness-snatches, squats, deadlifts.

    The important thing, just like executing your TKD, is proper form.I would advise looking into recommendations by sports medicine practitioners on safe guidelines for training.You may be surprised that they may say that certain ways taught in health clubs on how to lift, though "traditional", are not always advisable.Hope this helps.Train hard, protect your joints.And be careful in floor exercises.It's easy to stress your knees w/a lot of "air kicking" if you're not careful.Don't lock 'em.
     
  14. Jondo

    Jondo New Member

    thanks :D
     
  15. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Jondo, I think your talking about Golden Bridge stance?
     

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