Questioning The Grading systems place in Judo

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Gripfighter, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    can we get the grammar police crowd over here a minute ? is there anything specifically wrong with this other than not starting with a capitol letter ? doe's it actually come under lack of grammar simply because this <fine chap> found the wording hard to read ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2010
  2. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    If your instructor uses the Portuguese names then yes, you almost certainty would.
     
  3. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    :cool:
     
  4. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    are you told to stop/commence sparring in Portuguese, is the Portuguese word for sparring (or something that means more or less the same thing) used in place of sparing ? unless it is its not the same as comparing the use of Japanese in Judo.
     
  5. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Hmm I might be the only one to semi-agree with Rocket. I agree that as part of the syllabus you need to learn it but I also agree with rocket that its a questionable part of the syllabus. I appreciate respecting the heritage of your art but for something that is designed as a sport and practiced as one I do see the use of japanese being compulsory as an obstacle more than anything.

    Its a valid point but, since I have no idea if omoplata is a direct translation, I'd argue its to seperate it from other shoulder locks. Also omoplata is a simple word, wheras the judo I do in bjj is simply called "hipthrow" or "inside leg reap" etc. I'll be the first to admit this is probably laziness on my part however.

    This however I think is a good point. I did judo under a black belt which in my opinion makes him eligible to grade (sticking with the bjj comparison earning a belt does give you the power to grade your students) but he told me he couldn't because he refused to pay the money to go on a "course" to allow him to grade. That stinks of money grabbing to me.

    Only those like omoplata or gogoplata that are taught in portugese (I think its portugese?) from the start. I get the feeling that was rheotorical....
     
  6. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    The point was just that no matter what art you do you have to "learn the lingo" so to speak. For BJJ it's a bit of Portuguese a bit of english and what ever else people want to throw in, for fencing it was mostly french and for Judo it's Japanese (except for things which don't have japanese names). Come on man have fun with it, learn something new today! :)
     
  7. Cuong Nhu

    Cuong Nhu Valued Member

    So, you don't like the traditional ways of doing things? Then why are you doing a Traditional Martial Art?

    In practice I know a BJJ fighter who has said she would happily kill her own parents for a chance to train at the Kodokan, but I know hardly anyone who even knows where the IJF headquarters even is.

    You must have missed the other people who said that this the reason why you're complaining. You must have also missed that you're entire argument against the current grading system is that you seem to think you've been screwed over.

    Already answered.

    Um, no. You've specifically said it.
    I don't necessarily disagree with him, it seems remarkably like he's complaining about not being a higher rank because he doesn't want to learn Japanese.

    I don't do BJJ, but the article I sited said something to effect of 'also called shoulder lock'.

    Cost matter aside, it isn't uncommon for styles to have essentially a separate requirement for instructing. MCMAP (the Marine Martial Art) has separate requirements for people who want to be instructors. Cuong Nhu requires a Shodan to grade a Black Belt*, and there are numerous other similar set ups requiring that Dan testing requires bringing in a different Sensei/Master then your own. And to get permission to test for Black Belt and above requires permission from a 5th Dan or above.
    * In Cuong Nhu Black Belt is actually Zero Kyu, instead of Shodan. Shodan is the first promotion after Black.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  8. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    the term traditional martial art is a stupid one, boxing and wrestling are traditional martial arts 1000's of years older than judo and no one expects them to stick to the way they were originated, should boxing have rejected the marmcus of queensbury rules because it was untraditional ? everything in life must progress and evolve or it will not survive. I do them for the same reason anyone else does martial arts to some degree, I like to fight.

    who wouldn't rather train there the reason being because it is the traditional home of judo but it dos not hold the power or influence over the sport that it once did so there for its not the headquarters or in charge of anything in a de facto sense and has no real connection with this discussion.

    can you read it properly this time "I have stated multiple time's now, to you alone more than once " note I referred to the other two and you separately, I did not ignore the criticism of the others and focus solely on yourself.

    this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have told you that I used that as a "for example" please pay attention if your going to continue to waffle on, I have no problem learning Japanese to progress to 5 Kyu I am simply for the sake of discussion questioning its relevance in a system that's supposed to represent skill level. isn't that why your here on a Martial arts Forum for discussion ? same reply to spider's post but without the 2nd or 3rd time part.

     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  9. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    its bigger than money grabbing but, its also a way to control how the sport progresses and what is taught and what isn't, now part of that is necessary for quality control and who knows may be the reason why judo has retained a relatively high standard in that respect. but it also restrict's the natural progression and allows for manipulation like I already said, I mean presumably if the person had reached black belt he should be able to be trusted to pass on the knowledge properly without having to be regulated to much as is the case in Bjj as you said.
     
  10. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    Skill and knowledge dude, not just skill.
     
  11. Cuong Nhu

    Cuong Nhu Valued Member

    In Ancient Greece, the word 'Boxing' was extremely diverse. And, the word Jab is actually Greek. Further, boxing is being preserved. If it wasn't, it would have died shortly after Kickboxing or MMA came about.

    If people who don't even do Judo would happily kill their own parents for the chance to train at the Kodokan makes me think that if the Kodokan were to say "we should all do it this way" makes me think that virtually everyone would either jump on board, or start demanding that it be done that way.

    You are not willing to learn Japanese. You said that. I even quoted you in saying that.


    You keep saying that, but what do you even mean by it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  12. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    maybe you mean something else but if your getting at the philosophy in MA nonsense ill say what I always say, if you want knowledge read a book, if you want a higher stage of enlightenment do acid, if you want to learn to fight do Martial Arts, learning the Japanese names for techniques doesn't really amount to too much of an expansion of knowledge in my book.
     
  13. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Rocket, I'm posting this as a Moderator: drop the attitude and insults or you may find yourself getting short ban.

    On the topic of Japanese names, well Judo is an international art, therefore if everyone learns the names of the techniques in the same language it makes it much easier to train and compete all over the world.
     
  14. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    people have waited a long time for the kodokan to realise some statement about the regression of newaza in Judo in a vain hope that it will some how reverse the way things are going which has not happened, that to me says a direct lack of influence over the sport, possibly even a lack of care.

    you have completely avoided the question.

    I have explained this more than enough times now clearly you are just repeating it to provoke a reaction from me or your simply a moron.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  15. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I've never heard a bjj practitioner call it that. Closest thing to that is some people refer to americana's and kimuras as "keylocks". It might be important to note though that my instructor trained in brazil so his style of teaching may be different to general classes.

    Sort of makes sense but it still isn't something I agree with.

    Possible, but I think the changes in the syllabus (leg takedowns and severely limited ground game) are more to do with making judo appeal more to viewers at the olympics and such than having anything to do with grading. One could argue thats because the restrictions on grading have led to more traditional teachers having control over the possibly more diverse-minded modern teachers. I don't know anywhere near enough about judo to say if thats true or not but I can see it being a possibility looking at other arts.

    Thats my opinion and its not flawless, there are people at my club who deserve a grade but can't get one because my instructors a purple belt, but its preferable to me over making a seperate course that costs money. If you're confident in your arts' grading system you shouldn't need to vet people who have reached black belt status you sohuld be confident that in order to get that belt they know what they need to know. You're letting them teach so let them grade.
     
  16. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I assume boxing isn't taught in english all over the world and people are just taught jab or cross in their native language. Obviously judo techniques are a bit harder to describe however.
     
  17. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    if everyone in the world learned the one language it would make allot of things easier as well, sounds good on paper doesn't mean it would be in practise.
     
  18. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    exactly
     
  19. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    any "attitude" you feel I may have shown has been a direct response to the smiler negative, smarmy and superior attitude I feel I am receiving from cuong nhu and nothing else.
     
  20. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    the natural progression of a martial art is what should happen when its aloud to grow of its on accord, the manipulation of a martial art is when a few people get to shape it in there own image because they hold the power at the expense of the multitude who practise it and do not agree with the direction it is being take and who ultimately suffer the most because the lose out on learning about a large number of techniques i.e Newaza.
     

Share This Page