Discussion in 'Koryu Bujutsu' started by robocoastie, May 26, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member


    What are Koryu dojos like? Are they basically classical jujutsu with some classes set aside for weapons training? Also is Kobudo (Okinawan weapons) taught with that?

    I suspect weapons training is one that which makes BBT popular but it's not the only way to get weapons with H2H training; I know Internal Kung Fu teachers who have sword, horn knives, staff, and polearms as part of the curriculum.

    Thanks ahead of time. I live where MA schools are dominated by TKD or Rosenbach's (Bussey's old partner) modern mix of stuff.

    For anyone who comes in late, see post #10 for a more refined question.
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  2. fifthchamber

    fifthchamber Valued Member

    Ummm...You might be better served by reading some of the essays over on or perhaps something by Dave Lowry or Wayne Muromoto...

    Your question seems to imply that all Koryu are the same, and that all dojo do the same things? They don't, so it'll be impossible to answer...

    My dojo focuses on Jujutsu, since that's the "main" staple of a sogo budo like Takeuchi Ryu, but we start with Iai, then do ukemi and warmups and then taijutsu followed by Bo, and usually end with kogusoku...In the morning training anyway...Afternoons is different...But that's only my Dojo, and even in my school not all the classes are taught like that..We do it like that in Nakano because it's makes sense..Iai to warm up, then a more thorough warm up, then taijutsu while we're all fresh and then bo to build a sweat up and work on flow, and then Kogusoku to tie it all back together again in the end...But no one else in Koryu would train like that...Since it's all different

    See what I mean? It might be worth re-thinking your question somewhat? Perhaps you want one specific schools run-through? Or just a specific weapons school? In Kenjutsu Ryuha you won't find anyone practising Jujutsu since it's NOT Ken...(Unless they DO Jujutsu...), and in many Jujutsu Dojo you'd not find people training Yari...So you need to refine your question somewhat to make it answerable..

    All the best..
  3. fifthchamber

    fifthchamber Valued Member

    And Okinawan Kobudo is Okinawan, and wouldn't be trained outside of an Okinawan Kobudo Dojo...

    You do understand what Koryu is I presume?
  4. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter


    Koryu dojo are like koryu ryuha themselves; They differ from ryuha to ryuha. It is very important to note that there are no absolutes in koryu. Each school is individual in history, theory, technique, strategy and training methodology. Thus, no over generalizations can be made.

    Some dojo can be incredibly strict, while others are rather lax. Some teachers will show you everything, other teachers will want to see you actually work for the knowledge by you doing your own research and actually showing that you have an interest in the ryuha in question.

    Example: Jigen-ryu heiho demonstrate in hakama & montsuki. But training at the Togo heihosho is conducted in plain clothes. In Summer, it's the norm to see students train in t-shirts and jeans.

    The ryuha I trained in also were varied in how training went and what clothing was required; For Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, the students wore judogi and for embu, wore judogi, hakama and hachimaki (called teppi in the ryu).

    For Araki-ryu, you were expected to always wear keikogi, hakama, tabi and daisho. Even when doing polearm or chain weapons you were always expected to keep the kodachi in your obi.

    To answer your question, no, they are not simply jujutsu dojo that train in weaponry. Some jujutsu ryuha don't even go beyond basic usages of the weapon in the confines of the kata contained in the traditiion.

    Other ryuha are as Fifthchamber has stated, sogo-budo (comprehensive martial arts) where jujutsu is in the curriculum as are other weapons disciplines.

    Please bear in mind that in mainland Japan, kobudo (古武道) simply means old martial ways and is basically an interchangable term to koryu bujutsu (古流武術), or old school military arts. Kobudo is an umbrella term for armed and unarmed martial systems from mainland Japan. However, to cut down on confusion, it is acceptable to refer to the term as Nihon No Kobudo (日本の古武道)

    Okinawa or Ryukyu kobudo are martial disciplines that originate from the Ryukyu archipelago. Armed and unarmed martial disciplines. Weapons disciplines that include sai, eku, tonfa, nunchaku, rokushakubo etc are usually called as above, Okinawa Kobudo (沖縄古武道), or Ryukyu Kobudo (琉球古武道)
  5. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    thanks! You understood me correct. In a nutshell it really varies how much any given school teaches.

    This is why I had to include in my question that my only exposure to how weapons systems are taught is thru the (insert your own adjective) Bussey/Rosenbach modern ninja schools or the occassional TKD school who toss in an escrima form or nunchaku form.

    Yes I know about (great site) but as to just how they are actually taught in a school today I don't know and figured yall would.

  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    How much any given school teaches? No, not quite. Exactly what makes up the syllabus of any given Ryu-ha, yeah.

    Remember that a Koryu system is not a defined thing the way a Karate system is. It's like asking if you learn weapons in martial art schools, or just kicking and punching; the first question is "which martial art schools are you talking about?" It's exactly the same in Koryu (as Steve and Ben have already said).

    And thanks for the context of where you're coming from, but you obviously realise that these are nothing to do with Koryu schools whatsoever (Bussey's early training in the Bujinkan would be the closest, although the Bujinkan simply isn't Koryu in a number of ways, and Bob moved away from that very early on). So I wouldn't be looking to make any real comparrison between them myself.

    Once again, the first question is "which Koryu?", followed by "which dojo?". I have had exposure to a number of Koryu systems, including a couple of Kenjutsu systems (one of which features a large range of other weaponry), a Jujutsu system (that includes some weaponry), an Iai system, a Sogo Bujutsu system (based around the sword), a Naginata system, and a few others. And each are quite different to each other in many ways, with some very strict and formal, with little to no deviation to what is shown, others an exploration of movement within the teachings, others starting basic, and refining as you go, and so on. They have been relaxed and fun, or very strict, and anywhere in between.

    So while we do have an idea as to how they are taught today, it's like asking how martial arts are taught today, the question really is that general.

  7. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    A koryu dojo is a tardis, but without the time travel.

    I kid ye not.
  8. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    And here, Mexican food has been forbidden before class to avoid the tardis sound. :)
  9. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...


    I should elaborate - the study of koryu is like walking around the tardis. :D
  10. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    Yes I know they aren't koryu, they're merely a reference point to how I've seen weapons training outside the US Military and Internal Kung Fu taught.

    'twas an invitation as to how anyone here trains. I'll start over, maybe that will help.

    Is there anyone here who wants to volunteer what Koru Bujutsu style(s) they train in?
    If so:
    a) is it a school that teaches a few of them together packaged like or just one or your option?
    b) if you don't have a school and it seems finding one in the West is very difficult, how do you practice?
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  11. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I go overseas to train koryu and then come back home.

    You're not going to learn a koryu from a book, sorry. And this is coming from a HEMA practicioner... we DO learn from books at least in part. But it isn't Koryu. Doing HEMA well requires a background in other martial arts (wrestling, Jujutsu and something like Jogo do Pau are ideal) or being taught by someone who does. In Koryu you preserve the Art, in HEMA you reconstruct it. Analagous, complimentary, but separate endeavours.

    Fun is great. I'm not about to tell you you're having Badwrongfun. It's none of my business. However, what if one day you get the opportunity to learn koryu? Then you'll have to unlearn YEARS of bad habits which will actually SLOW your progress.

    Much better to find a good martial arts school that will teach you GOOD habits that will give you a foundation to learn a koryu should you eventually find one. Perhaps the OP is already doing that. Otherwise you're stabbing yourself in the foot. Perhaps literally. :) Think about it... what's going to help you learn koryu... years of Iaido or jujutsu or swinging a sword around without any guidance? How about 10 years of classical fencing? That will teach you to control your body to a very fine degree... an excellent skill for koryu, or any other MA.

    Now, if you're not willing or able to travel, then koryu isn't for you right now if there's none in your area. Travelling for two or three hours to the dojo is fairly common. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

    BUT if you have no plans to EVER do a serious sword art, then fill your boots. Have at 'er and have a jolly good bash. As long as no one gets hurt, it's fine by me.

    Best regards,

  12. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    ok thanks. What does HEMA mean?

    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  13. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    Historical European Martial Arts.

    I currently practice Mugai ryu, which is a koryu sword art. There is no empty hand with it, but our particular branch of Mugai ryu also practices tanjo, kusarigama, and jo. I used to practice Sekiguchi ryu battojutsu, which is primarily a sword art. It split off from the main jujutsu line several generations back, but the main line is attempting to incorporate the sword portion of the curriculum back into their line.
  14. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    And when you enter a ryu, it's bigger on the inside!
  15. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Some of the posters here have given less than subtle hints as to what they do.
  16. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    Thanks all! And why so rude Kogusoke. Fine I'll not let the door hit me in the ass on the way out.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    That wasn't rude...if you want rude keep poking him
  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    No not rude at all.

    Don't confuse directness with bad manners.

    If you read up on Koryu you will see why you will get certain answers.
  19. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    By subtle hints, I meant that he had a humpload of clues to ascertain who did what in koryu.

    Dear Lord! If the young fella has such thin skin already, and noone's been rude yet, forget it! :bang:

    I haven't been rude on this thread. YET.
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  20. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    I wouldn't advise that lol.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page