Question for U ninjas

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Goju, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. Goju

    Goju Yellow Belt

    U guys all must be good at ninja stuff, I dont really know much about the topic, but, I know that kobudo or weapons training is regularly incorperated in most martial arts (I'm eventually going to learn a few weapons like tonbo, tonfa, bo, jo, sai etc) and I know that once mastered the weapons can be very deadly or useful.

    What I was wondering was why weapons are practiced so often in ninja arts, because I know the art is ancient and that type of training is part of it, but when will u ever be carrying a sword, long staff, ninja stars, darts, sai etc while walking on the street which is where u get attacked? I could see a knife or stick training being important because a knife can be concealed in your pocket and u can use pretty much anything as a stick, but katana and staff or other large weapons don't make sense to me. I just think that the empty handed arts would be the most important.
    Another unrelated topic, have any of u guys played tenchu: wrath of heaven for PS2?, thats a great ninja game.

    please answer....
     
  2. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    I think all weapons training is relevant. Both from a mhistorical point of view (explianing why we turn our bodies "this way" instead of "that way"). They also teach you proper body mechanics. How to strike, parry, evade. But, a big part for me is, just because a weapon is an antique doesn't mean the techniques are. Example, kusarigama (sickle with chain and weight) or kyoketsu shoge (funny looking knife with cord and iron ring), think of anything with a handheld/heavy/blunt etc object at one end, attached to a cord. A few come to mind.. phones with cords (still have those at work) an iron, a ladies purse or handbag, my belt, my wallet and chain. Katana? Baseball bat, broom stick, machete, yardstick (I have a steel yardstick used for drafting, lethal!). Shurikens? wood/stone/glass coasters or astrays. Weapons training is not about the weapon. It's about the theory and use of your body and any tool that you can use. Ink pens, combs, credit cards, playing cards, plastic spoons.
     
  3. Goju

    Goju Yellow Belt

    thanks, that really cleared things up!

    when im older i plan on starting ninja and i still have a few questions..... thanks
     
  4. chaozkingz

    chaozkingz New Member

    that is a very good way of explaining it kurohana.
    thanks now i know what to say when newer students ask me the same question in the dojo.
    most of the time i refer to footwork though. weapons training really improves my footwork and stances.
     
  5. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    No doubt about that! Weapons training affects us on so many levels. Physically, emotionally and psychologically. "I have a weapon, that makes me invincible!" to "Dang, I keep hitting myself. I'll never learn how to use this". With each person losing sight of why we learn to use weapons. Yes, weapons can give you an edge in a fight. But, they can also give you a false sense of security. Yes, you can keep whacking yourself in the head, arm, leg when you practice with ne, but as chaoz pointed out, proper weapons use can help one learn proper footwork (kamae).
     
  6. chaozkingz

    chaozkingz New Member

    yeah... my instructor always point out how weapons can be a very good addition in combat, but at the same time is also a limitation as well.

    a good example will be a tanto vs tanto kumite. i've just started this so i may not be experienced enough to talk about it.

    kurohana: have u ever felt like the tanto in ur hand makes things harder and easier at the same time? i mean... when we r unarmed it is easier to grab the opponent's hand, but when we have the tanto it feels a lot safer, although it is so damn difficult to do a block with a tanto...
     
  7. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Footwork will also

    improve your weapons work.

    Its the most important thing all Taijitsu people do.
     
  8. havoc123

    havoc123 New Member

    not only that but who knows what ur opponent could have. The katana may also be represented as say a bat, and learing how to dodge that and how to defend urself against things like that
     
  9. Bouk Teef

    Bouk Teef Valued Member

    I think Kurohana answered your question very well. It doesn't matter what you have in your hand (tanto, kantana, pen, newspaper), without effective Taijuitsu (body movement) you will not achieve anything. Any "technique" performed with a weapon can be performed with equal effectiveness empty-handed if the practisioner using Taijuitsu to deliver his/her technique. It is good practice for students to train with weapons as this gives them an insight into ever changing timing, distance and balance.
    Often the priciple of a technique will remain the same however one (or all!) of the characteristics above will change, for example, delivering a strike with a tanto and then delivering a similar strike with a Bo.
    Students will often focus on the weapon and forget about their Taijuitsu. This leads to rigid technique that is unable to adapt to changing situations.
     
  10. Shadow_Lurker

    Shadow_Lurker New Member

    Besides what has already been said, using the swords and other weapons is all part of the art and every art has it's traditions and ways of doing things. For example, we still have paintings being painted but we have computers that are capable of producing the same beauty. We even have drawing! How outdated is that? lol.

    Yes, I have played Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven. Actually, it's in my PS2 right now. I have one more day on the rental. LOL. It makes me feel all tingly....

    Excellent question by the way...
     
  11. Ice Queen

    Ice Queen New Member

    It also sems to make you more aware of your surroundings. As strange as that may seem. Walking down the street I find that it's always good to have something in your hand. Which is where weapons training, IMHO, steps in for me. Ninjutsu is the most adaptive style I know of. And the weapons clases are the best way to adapt. Been attacked once walking home. They guy didn't seem to like the outcome. Did you know that a walkman on your head hurts just as much as a hammer? :D
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Ninjitsu/jutsu is by no means unique d_rza - look at Fillipino systems for example. They place quite a strong emphasis on weapons - in fact they learn them first usually before moving on to empty hands.

    I have only trained a little in taijitsu when I was "swapping" techniques with a good friend (Harvey Guest - 5th Dan at the time I believe). It was an interesting experience. The stick work was certainly a marked contrast to other methods I had been exposed to. I still use the odd technique from it as a surprise on an opponent.

    I read a very good book on shuriken throwing as an art in its own right which suggested golf balls were a good substitute. Certainly one of those on the head would give you a fair knock!
     
  13. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Kurohana - spot on with the weapons

    For a Kubotan - use a pen

    For a Bo Shuriken - use a pen - strikes not throwing, can throw as a distraction.

    Shuko (cats claws) - use keys or fingernails

    Knife - Knife

    Sword/Staff - Stick

    The idea when profficient with weapons you should be able to use most things to some degree.

    Its not trained for when you have a Katana but if you do then good but there might be something you can use to a close resemblance, if not you still have your empty hand stuff!
     

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