question for grapplers

Discussion in 'MMA' started by IRONMAN, Mar 18, 2004.

  1. waz1

    waz1 Banned Banned

    no no no,i have not made statements of an arrogant nature just spoke my mind,what i think, ur the arrogant 1 for saying im arrogant of which im not.as for the shadow boxing mularky,you missed my point then you threw in the shadow boxing question,my point was if you JUST do katas youl come unstuck some where down the line,then you threw in the well i shadow box analogy,like i said you missed the point.if you do shadow boxing and only shadow boxing youl come unstuck.DOH!you are the arrogant 1 for assuming something that i did not,and treid to bamboozle me with your naff analogy,if you understood my point in the fist place you wouldnt have made the comment. :woo:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2004
  2. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Your questions about Kata etc bear little relation to the original topic of the thread.

    Please start a new thread for any issues which diversify from the original topic!
     
  3. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    Yeah, lol lets get this post back on track lol...

    My appologises for helping change it's course...
     
  4. IRONMAN

    IRONMAN Valued Member

    so whos running and whos going to stay and fight? lets say theres between 3 and 4 attackers. how r u going to be on the defensive or are you going to launch the initial attack and what to do do if it goes to the ground?
     
  5. totality

    totality New Member

    everyone is going to run. if you want answers like that, (which have already been given on the past 4 pages) don't give running as an option. and this is an impossible question, anyway. you won't think about what to do in a real fight, or you'll get hurt. you will REACT. there is no tried and true strategy to fighting multiple opponents, or any opponent for that matter. the only thing you can do is train what you can, and hope you're better than your opponent.
     
  6. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    I would hit first, fast, and hard.
     
  7. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    just like to add to that "keep on hitting"
     
  8. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    No, just once. Don't want to KILL the poor guys.
     
  9. totality

    totality New Member

    *he's lying, he likes to kill people. ESPECIALLY THE INNOCENT!!!*
     
  10. Coyote

    Coyote New Member

    For the record, I do study both MMA and TMA-- they are complementary, not exclusive. Donn F. Draeger and Robert W. Smith write "To speak of boxers is to speak of wrestlers and weapons adepts as well, for if the master boxer was not a complete combat expert he would come out poorly in a challenge that specified a weapon or method not his specialty." Although this is in reference to Chinese Boxing, it is applicable to this topic as well. A grappler who relied solely on grappling techniques is going to get his hiney handed to him as surely as a boxer who uses nothing but fists and feet. While these techniques are formidable weapons, they lose effectiveness when the MA is forced to split his attention, and the more people he has to focus on, the harder it's going to become.

    Addressing the topic more directly, however, as several people have pointed out the key is to not let all of them get a shot at you at once. Maneuver to keep some of the attackers stuck behind others, definitely try for a weapon if the option is there (in the U.S., at least in Ohio and Michigan, multiple attackers will justify anything short of a knife or a gun), and don't be afraid to open up with short, hard punches and kicks.

    Will you end up getting clobbered? Probably, unless you can maneuver to an exit or to the help that you brought with you (you did bring help, didn't you? If not, why did you let it escalate this far in the first place?) And, contrary to what many people think, hurting the other guy badly is not fair or acceptable compensation for the head-stomping which you are likely to recieve.

    Now, briefly, compare this to what we learn in TMA-- step one, deny your opponents angles of attack. Step two, take the offensive and be willing to use your kicks and punches to incapacitate as many opponents as possible. Step three, probably get clocked by one of the other attackers while executing step two and settle in for a nice round of getting your head stomped in. It's not really that different from what a grappler does. I would add, that if a weapon or an escape is an option, both the effective TMA and the effective grappler are going to be trying for it, because going unarmed against 3-4 guys is pretty much suicide unless they're the extras in your very own made-for-tv-movie.

    I hope this wasn't too inflammatory-- I tried to keep my tongue firmly wedged in my cheek-- but I was also trying to be as informative as I could be. If you don't agree with me, and you have a *reasoned* argument to back up your position, please feel free to tell me why you think I'm an idiot.

    Cheers
     
  11. totality

    totality New Member

    it's not a matter of what techniques you use, it's how you deal with your opponent's techniques. a pure grappler DOES have a better chance in a fight than a pure striker, because most people have a vague idea of what strikers are capable of, and grapplers can train for that. most people outside of the MA world have no idea what a submission is, and will consequently die after only one ki blast.
     
  12. hedgehogey

    hedgehogey Banned Banned

    I agree with coyote.

    You can study TMA with an MMA training methodology.
     
  13. Shaolin Dragon

    Shaolin Dragon Born again martial artist

    You not only can, but should. TMA should be trained against resisting, non-compliant opponents. But what most people see when they watch TMA being trained are the stages that build up to this level (and I will be the first to agree that as often as not, TMA take longer than is necessary to get to this level). Indeed, I have attended TMA classes which actively encourage other styles of MAist to come along and exchange ideas, and to give the students experience of sparring with other stylists. But this does not stop it from being TMA.
     
  14. hedgehogey

    hedgehogey Banned Banned

    The stage that builds up to that first level lasts about fifteen minutes.

    Anyone can train alive from their first class, using the three I method.
     
  15. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Ah, the "three I" method. Kurt Angle would be proud.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2004
  16. yes

    yes Banned Banned

    would anyone like to elaborate on what this method is?
     
  17. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    lol yeah right, You've lost me now :)

    Three I method?
     
  18. Shaolin Dragon

    Shaolin Dragon Born again martial artist

    If you make a complete beginner train against fully resisting opponents, then all they are going to learn is how to get beat up properly.
     
  19. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Nothing like getting hit to teach you how not to get hit :D

    The problem is that some people dont like to get hit in the first place ;)
     
  20. Shaolin Dragon

    Shaolin Dragon Born again martial artist

    It's like weight training - you don't get to lift the really heavy weights by trying to lift them from your first session and killing yourself in the process - you do it by starting with small weights, and working your way up to the big ones;)
     

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