Qu Zhong Qiu Zhi (曲中求直）from the writing of Wu Yuxiang (1812-1880) was translated as "in the curve seek the straight" by Lee N. Scheele. It was suggested that it should be curves, many curves as mentioned earlier "move as in a pearl with nine passages". So, it should be seeking straight in curves. Any enlightenment on this classical Taijiquan concept?
That is plural so I take that you agree to curves, and I find the translation by Peter Lim Tian Tek is also curves. Chen Taijiquan people like to use the spiral analogy but it should simply kinematic chain, or the open/close kinetic chain. Xingyiquan people have similar concept and they use the 9 section strengths.
I‘d really like to get involved further in this thread, but I really can‘t see what you‘re trying to get at? Just for clarity, is this the writing you're referring to?
Hang on a mo... Are you just asking about "curve" vs "curves"?? If so, I think you're reading into it too much.
A spiral (curve) can produce a straight, and curves produce a straight makes sense in terms of the kinetic chain. Do you know the story about the 9 curve pearl?
I also don't like to talk about "abstract" stuff. If a concept can help me to improve my fighting skill, I will be interested in it. Otherwise, I can't careless about it. I prefer to look at this as "in the middle of your spiral move, you change it into a straight line move". From the striking art point of view, when - you throw a right hook punch at your opponent's head, the moment that your opponent tries to use his left arm to block your punch, the moment that you change your right hook punch into a straight punch and punch to the left side of his chest over his left arm. - your opponent throws a jab or cross at your head, you use a spiral block (similar to the WC Bon Shou), deflect his punch and then straight punch at his chest. This kind of punch in the praying mantis system is called 哈拳(Ha Chuan). IMO, it's easier to change a circular punch into a linear punch. It may be harder to do the other way around. From the grappling art point of view, when you spin your body and try to throw your opponent, you suddenly feel that your opponent tries to resist and pull his body away from you, you then borrow his force, change your circular move into a linear move. In the following clip, you can see that the same technique can be used in both circular and linear. Whether this is addressed by that Taiji principle or not. I'm not sure. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TV3YNKxT7w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TV3YNKxT7w[/ame]
To look at the concept from a very simplistic view, it could also be interpreted as seeking the shortest, most efficient path even within a particularly 'round' technique. Straight line being the shortest path between two points, etc.. IE: When throwing a hook-punch, keeping the movement tight into the frame, so it is not telegraphed, or does not leave you open, instead of allowing it to swing wide. But I also like your interpretation of the ability to change from one to another in an instant. I think, in terms of a linear punch, the spirals/circles are a part of the mechanics of the punch; from the feet, up through the waist and torso, down through the arm - it's a series of spirals, even though the end result may be a straight punch.
Another angle to look at this is even when your body is - bending, you should still keep your straight force. - straight, you should still keep your bending force. This way, your body can act as a spring (or as a fish) that have the vibration power.
The idea about the kinetic chain is to generate maximum power from the sum of the movements of the joints. This should work for short range strakes.
You're talking about whole-body connectivity, right? You know, discussions work better when you give more than a one-line reply...
The relevant joints, look at the joints that are activated in a reverse right hand punch in a forward stance for example. This sort of connecting the left ankle up to the right wrist, and use the rear right leg to maintain balance.
Is there a question there? Or are you trying to come across as having some sort of advanced knowledge that we're meant to scrape around your feet for?
As DB noted,your body moves in various arcs,circles and spirals. Your energetic expression doesn't necessarily. Very simplified examples-- first DB's straight punch. --Shift forward with the spine waving like a whip,and deliver "an" forward and down. --How about a neutralization at a joint and then coming out of the joint to issue straight? Some of the stuff in the classic writings aren't always as "deep" as TC people pondering on them makes them seem. Some of it's theory,and some of it's nuts and bolts. Threading through a pearl with 9 passages can be about the energetics in the chain,or can refer to leading ch'i. Or both.More commonly (much more commonly) the latter,which is to bring about the ability to attain the former. The two concepts you're speaking of aren't referring to quite the same thing. The arcs and spirals are about physical movements,threading the pearl isn't necessarily about arcs/spirals/circles in the same sense. "and use the rear right leg to maintain balance." Only as an additional reference point-your balance is maintained by and through the weighted forward leg. The rear leg isn't maintaining any balance if it's executing a follow step with that rear hand. What does connecting the left ankle to the right wrist do? Are you speaking of their relationship to each other as points in regard to the alignment of the body? An imparting of the solidity of the ground from the grounded left leg to the issuing right arm? An ethereal energetic connection? You didn't really say anything. Or long range strikes,including those flying kicks.Or downing.Or tying up. It's hardly just about issuing and power,tho'.
I have asked whether you know the story of the nine curved pearl (Jiu Qu Zhu 九曲珠），and there is nothing advance here just on a concept in the Taijiquan Classics that is all. And there are lots of materials in open and close kinetic chains.
The point of a discussion forum is that we discuss - there may well be lots of material out there, but it is YOUR view and interpreation on it that you need to bring here or else don't even bother posting Otherwise every single conversation on here would go "What is the best art for kicking?" "There are lots of materials out there about it" Try and atually offer an opinion, because as it stands you are just crapping up bandwith with nothing posts
The Pearl in the classic writing-(not Steinbeck) Pretty obvious that it's imagery used in a description.Generally not meant in a literal manner. Note almost all translations use terms similar to "as if","like",etc. 9 pearls or "pearl w/9 passages".It can be translated both ways but for whatever reasons most authors,both native and non-native speakers use "9 passage". In teaching most have used the same wording/meaning. I know of one branch of thought in which it has a literal meaning in the leading/usage/cultivation of ch'i but this seems to be a more recent idea or at the least a (very) minority opinion. Equating it with joints is a very modern interpretation which has nothing to do with the meaning/usage in the original writings.Esp as I can't think of any traditional Wu Shu writings which refer to the body as having 9 joints. As to where the authors got it,there are at least a couple (and likely more) stories/accounts having to do w/a 9 passaged pearl.Nothing to do w/ch'i,intent, MAs or anything related. Why do I feel if they'd used more obvious imagery such as "move the ch'i as if leading an ox by the ring in the nose" there wouldn't be any discussions about it?
