Qigong Psychotic Reaction

Don't even bother. I already know, every word, every argument, every attempt, every diversion, every distraction... but no matter, the truth is always true... always... always... always....


Do something different - anything - break the cylce... run, run, run... or war war war.... attack, retreat, attack, retreat....


Just do anything different... just because.... to prove you can.... If not now... in some other ego-conflict. Just because.... it's free will......

 

Fire-quan - you don't know me. You are coming across as completely unhinged, especially with all this "mirror mirror" stuff. I do have my disagreements with people on MAP, but I have my agreements too. You just seem to try to stir up trouble wherever you go. I thought your name - Fire-quan - was a pretty big clue to what you were up to from the start.

And you have an ego the size of a planet, but you just can't see it. Oh well.

Edit - I see you've been posting your rants and then editing them again, FQ - oh well the original text is above for people to see.

 

I'm genuinely a bit worried about you, FQ. Honestly - I'm not sure what the matter is, but you seem quite unhappy.

 

Fire-quan, you don't know anything about Joanna, you're just making enormous assumptions. To mention that one has had cancer to put things in context is not self-pity, it's just factual truth. Cancer can leave people with ongoing health issues, that affect the rest of their life, long into remission.

You seem to delight in twisting words and sentiments. You challenged Joanna because she described an anti-social neighbour. As it turned out, he was a real neighbour but the reason he was mentioned was to make a hypothetical point and he was used purely as an example. The important thing was not the actual neighbour or the effect he specifically had on any specific individual's life, but you wanted to know why Joanna would live next door to someone like that, so she explained the situation. Not for pity, but simply to explain the facts. Sometimes the facts are relevant, especially when they have been asked for.

Joanna is a warrior - she has always been a warrior and she is frankly one of the least self-pitying people I've ever met. Her doctors made a point of the fact that her determination and optimism were the reason she pulled through. She saw a lot of death on that cancer ward though, so she doesn't need to be told about witnessing cancer. Her mother also has terminal cancer.

Joanna is also very kind and protective and has defended myself and others from harm. She protected a security guard from a racist attack a few months ago, so your accusations that she is a racist and a hater of humanity are bizarre and unfounded, and certainly not evidenced by her posts or other writings.

You appear to enjoy conflict more than the rest of us put together. Joanna (and I) do not use God to be in conflict with the world, His grace helps us to have less conflict as we try to live by His rules and message. I'd interpret Jesus' criticism of the Pharisees as Him challenging them for putting their interpretation of the letter of the Law above humanity and compassion. For Joanna to challenge your perspectives and ideologies is not seeking conflict, but standing up for what she believes in. And all that stuff about you accepting Joanna as "perfect" is completely hypocrisy, you have done very little apart from attack every aspect of her life, ideas and experience. I wouldn't want a "gift" like that.

You're so busy with your pet theories and assumptions that you have no empathy, and it doesn't seem like you want to have any compassion or humanity anyway. If you are enlightened, I'd love to know your secret so I could avoid your path and your "level of thought" at all costs.

 

Please refrain from making personal statements about others. Keep in mind that everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, however foolish or hypocritical you think they might be. Also bear in mind that this is not a forum for the dissemination of religious or political doctrine, it is a forum for discussion of internal martial arts. If you feel like posting a "rant" or lecture, feel free to start a personal journal and post your thoughts in there.

 

Unlike Joanna, I don't think you quite grasped the arguements presented.
For if you choose to nuture or stifle then you would be an advocate of free will and fall into Joanna's camp.
Going back to the psychotic reaction to Qigoing, this is entirely possible, because the belief system around Qi is steeped in mysticism that those with a vulnerability could react negatively to the ideas. It is like many metality ill people latch on to christianity in this country, it's not christianity making people ill but a medium that the illness is expressed.

The Bear.

 

Hi Julie...please let jkz speak for herself.

 

In the end, we choose to be victims, or not, no matter what happens to us. We choose. All the power is in us, no matter what. We choose to be in conflict with the world, or not. At any point, we can just simply choose not to be - even if someone is cutting our head off, we can choose not to be a victim. Victim isn't about what happens to us, or how long we live - it's about how we live, how we face life.

And at any point, we can choose to take full and total responsibility for our actions, for our lives, for our words, for our deeds; seeing that we act and speak in certain ways to cause specific responses. In which case, we don't care one damn about the things we pretend to be championing, or having compassion for - all we care is that they are tools that we can use, to cause conflict.. even what we eat, what we drink, what we think... even those we love... "pawnography"..... and then blame the world for being in conflict with us. "Poor me... I am a leaf blown at the mercy of the wind...spread the word... we are all victims... pity, pity...to us..."


We choose to be victims, or not. The greatest power we have, is that choice.

Enlightened Buddhas, we beesech, do not abandon us to the hell that we have created for ourselves.

 

What would be refreshing, would be to actually hear Julie speak for herself, at long last.

 

The only illness is limitation of awareness. We can't ever see past choices that we don't understand. Free will is meaningless if we have no awareness of patterning. Only the free, are free.

 

Fire-quan what your saying isn't as revolutionary as you seem to believe. Taking responsibility for your life, being aware of your actions and accepting what is beyond your power to change... it's hardly things people are never going to have heard before and it doesn't make your arguments any more convincing. I disagree with JK on a fundamental level about many things but on this occasion I have to say the pseudo-Buddhist waffle combined with deeply arrogant remarks is leaving your argument looking like inane ranting and I have to compliment JK for remaining civil.

You are of course free to ignore my remarks they are afterall likely the thoughts of an unaware individual who probably can't grasp your deep philosophical insight.

 

A peak through my mind prism ...

If I may, insight has little to do with originality and we all have our own brands and modes of insight across all spectrums of human experience. It just describes a switch in understanding, which affects everything else in the owner's world-view. Insight can happen more than once and is deeply personal. Insight also has many levels (does not have to describe an absolute truth), is self inflicted and happens to those who are ready for it.
It might very well be pseudo buddhist babble for some or undiluted living wisdom for others, but each of us have minds which by and large react to stimuli based on habitual response, which depending upon the belief structures we employ will be easier or more difficult to acccept.
Indeed it is interesting that there is some recognition of a philosophical root, buddhism (most people agree this is "good"), which conflicts with other messages that are being read here (it might appear that something "bad" is happening).
Furthermore, applying the mind is giving context, matching it to the baggage we hoard that shapes our understanding and colours our conditioned response.Words, sentences and even points of view have no intrinsic power, other than how we choose to interpret, which can be positive or negative and all shades in between.
If a person were to read FQ's posts and to take them out of the context of this thread, they can be understood to be insightful in their own right.
His communication shows his insight. Your responses show your insight, but there is no intrinsically "good" or "bad" value to be applied here. One of the greatest delusions is that conflict is "bad", because it is through conflict that our understanding has an opportunity, usually to the discomfort of the existing mind-mould.

My observation is that there is a lot of value to be shared across the entire bandwidth of "insight", and especially my own ... heheh, so to finish with some pseudo buddhist/IMA waffle of my own ... move your right hand in an arc from where it is to somewhere else. Did you notice how the whole body reacts to this movement? Now THAT is insight!

Please Note:
1.This post did did not seek to discredit or give credit to the Qi phenomenon at any point during it's composition.
2. Compassion is knowing that all of us are in our own struggles to break through, whether we're aware of it or not. It's difficult to see the forest with all these damn trees.
3. Now that we're aware of the previous two points, we can all relax ... lol.

 

I used the term pseudo Buddhism due to the several repeated mentions of an enlightened Buddha and the constant admonition that we are only capable of controlling ourself and in particular our thoughts and not external events. That's one of the most common understandings of what Buddhism is about.

On top of this I'd also suggest that 'pseudo-Buddhism' is a fitting description for a post when it includes some Buddhist ideas and/or claims of being more aware/less egotistic/more detached which are stated in a deeply superior and egotistical manner.

Anyhow... each to their own but I think debates trundle along much better without posts like FQ's last few. Look at how productive the discussion has been since he/she went off on his rant.

 

CKava and Kembang Alas have been discussing:

There's a lot of it about. To be completely honest, I do not understand the fascination for Buddhist philosophy (I'm not a great expert, but I studied an OU degree course on it and have had Buddhist friends). I would like to point out that Buddhism is far from the only valid world view for martial artists to have. Sometimes it feels like on martial arts forums, especially where Eastern arts are discussed, Buddhism is the default philosophy that martial artists are expected to have and in fact, further than that, there is an assumption that Buddhist philosophy is unquestionably correct.

Buddhism is a viewpoint that the first Sikh Guru, Nanak was very critical of and there have been other Indian and non-Indian philosophers who have also been critical of it subsequently.

I would urge anyone who thinks Buddhism is cool to look at other philosophies and theologies as well. You might just discover that there is more to life than it.

One person's enlightenment is another person's deluded fantasy. This, in itself, does not prove that everything everyone thinks is deluded fantasy. It could just as easily mean that some people are deluded and others are not. It could mean that some people are deluded some of the time...

If you assess this situation through a Buddhist lens, you still arrive at Buddhism, but if you were to assess it through a Judaic lens, a Christian lens or a Sikh lens, you would arrive at a very different analysis. A Buddhist might shout "precisely" but then, so might someone who was not a Buddhist, whilst meaning entirely different things and drawing entirely different conclusions from it.

Fixed reality is easy to prove. Kembang Alas goes by the name of "Kembang Alas" on this forum, so people will refer to him by that name here. No one refers to him as "Eric" because it is not his name. If someone did refer to him as Eric, they would be wrong. That's just factual stuff - it's easy really.

A so-called "enlightened" world view shoots itself in the foot if it goes on to profess itself to be delusional. Paradox is not intrinsically virtuous - those who think it is, simply display a fascination for paradoxes. And while paradoxes may be fascinating to some, their existence in no way proves that everything is paradoxical. There is a lot of overly simplistic thinking around, in my view.

On another note, FQ has talked a lot about pity, but it is only because I pity him that I haven't let rip with what I really make of his ranting and personal abuse. If I thought he was just being mean, I'd probably be more severe.

Anyway, we are way off topic of course, although on the other hand, I do think this thread may have kind of lived up to its name. I would like to warn people to be wary - it seems that you don't have to call your practice "qigong" to develop delusional thoughts. I genuinely believe that meditation and visualisation methods might in themselves be dangerous territory for sanity to wander and wonder through, especially if you are drawn to such things. If you devote time to imagining things that are not real, maybe you will develop a habit of believing things that are not real, and maybe your view of everyone else will become egocentrically coloured by your own distorted sense of self.

This is what I believe from my own life experience thus far. Others are free to believe whatever they think is real.

 

The bear's quick one liners for large religions:

Judeo-Christian : Carrot and Stick for Dummies.
Bhuddism : Stop the bus I want off.
Hinduism : ubber-Anthropomorphic personification.
Sikhism : Hey, I'm not Anthropomorphic but other that I'm like the other guy.

They ALL have good ideas, none of them have any more answers than a Jilly Cooper novel.
Atleast they aren't Scientology.

The Bear.

 

You're a pest is what you are.

And just when I thought we were getting along.

Polar Bearism:
See how easily I can write-off most of humanity.

Sigh. It just isn't that easy - that's the truth.

 

I like the sound of that. You wanna become a Polar Bearist, JK?
There's on four commandments I got bored, I'll let them make up the rest after I've ascended into the celestial igloo.

No person can own another person.
Don't follow anyone says they say the have a me on their side (they are lying I probably never even met them).
Education is the greatest virtue.
Pork is the holy food

The Bear.

 

I'm already working on forming a heretical sub-sect to turn it on its head.

 

Buddhism is part of my cultural heritage ...

Hi Joanna, my name is Krisno Pryosusilo ... not Eric .

Buddhist & Hindu thought is part of my cultural heritage, it is who I am. So is Islam & Christianity to a degree, but they feel more alien to my personal perspective on life. My name and my tradition (including my martial tradition) comes from this cultural background.

You are perfectly correct, there are many world views.
I do not recognise/understand what it is you are saying about buddhism and enlightenment in your post, ... but for me the central tenet I live by is to focus on now and to live simply and usefully.
Of course that doesn't need a label of any sort, and in fact I prefer not to label it. However I recognise that most of what I think, feel and process is through my cultural heritage.

My responses to this thread was to try to soften some of the debate that was involving some ideas which are also common to buddhist thought ... particularly as I felt that I felt there was an air of dismissiveness in some cases. Sometimes the introduction of different perspective involves argument of some sort, however I certainly do not wish to inflame the situation.

Cheers,
Krisno

 

... buddhism for me is not a "religion" but a way of thinking. Buddhist thinking from my perspective, always involves a critical process and does not encourage the blind acceptance of dogma, therefore it isn't by nature something that is unquestioningly "correct".

Cheers.