Proportionate Force for Defending your Property

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Moosey, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    And theres other instances where the home owner has been arrested for a similar incident.

    No crime is the same!

    Best way I guess to describe it.
    Watch a UFC event. Its 2 people in a room. Who do harm to each other within certain rules.

    Basic right?

    Until you factor in
    Arm length
    Weight cutting
    Fighter personality
    Etc etc

    Suddenly, its all similar but different.
    axelb likes this.
  2. Tman

    Tman Valued Member

    I'm well aware that people have been/could be arrested for defending their homes, or for self defense. There is no clear cut answer as to what to do. Even if you train for it, once you're actually in it things are different and the wrong move could put you in jail, or your loved ones injured or worse.

    UFC fights don't happen in your home at 3am where you haven't had a chance to warm up, be awake and alert. You know when and where the UFC fight will take place. You know the duration of each round and have specifically prepared for it. There are rules that both combatants must follow.

    The need to defend you home could arise at anytime, or never. They could be armed, they could outnumber you and there are no rules and referee.
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Step back and read a couple pages back.

    What I was addressing is that people always think that each individual crime has a set punishment.
    No matter what you do, theres a good chance you've got to go to court to say what you've done.
    And it is in Court where it is decided, hence why some cases take minutes and others take weeks.

    As I've said before a couple pages back. In the spur of the moment "I personally" would most likely deal out some blunt force trauma. Because I have no idea what this persons intent is.
    However......going straight for maiming tactics and kill moves immediately? Then dont be suprised to be cuffed up and in a cell (still not proven guilty yet) , interviewed by Police with a lawyer then put on a form of bail (still not guilty yet) and going through a lot of legal paperwork and potential cost and eventually hitting Court.

    And as I said, there are many many many times it doesnt even go that far.
    Majority of the time, burglars will run away when found out.
    In the article above, the main reason why the burglar stuck around is because he thought he could take on an old bloke and died because of it.
    Which by the way is what was taken into account in Court (hence my UFC analogy - not everything is cut and paste even when something so basic is in your face, a simple point that has been missed).
    Old bloke was old and had a genuine fear for his life.

    Bear in mind 99.999 Judges and Lawyers and members of the public who post on social media do not train in martial arts, nor know or understand how their own legal system works and therefore do not understand what "use of force" aka "how hard can I hit him/her/zhey" can equate to.
    bassai, axelb, Hannibal and 1 other person like this.
  4. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You prepare for a UFC fight and you prepare for an intruder at home.

    Locks on the windows, a security chain on the door, alarms on the shed, alarms downstairs while you sleep upstairs and a whole host of other ideas to keep you safe.

    Couple that with an understanding of the law, scenario training, de-escalation training, watching videos and explaining what you've seen, as though explaining to the authorities and you are starting to start to have the same preparation as a UFC fighter.

    Of course, sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.
    axelb, SWC Sifu Ben and Hannibal like this.
  5. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'd ask, "what do you to to avoid a fire at home?"

    Fire alarms, make sure fires are off at night, oven checked, no faulty wiring and so on.

    When your partner/kids are out at night do you know where they are, have they got charged mobile phones and are emergency numbers on speed dial?

    All these are precautions made way in advance of any issues.

    Good self defence training is you taking the same sort of precautions.
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It’s easier to default to “maim kill destroy” than actually spend time preparing for reality in all its many faceted joy

    Part of it is lack of instructors who know the material and part is laziness
    David Harrison and Monkey_Magic like this.
  7. Here in the UK i always thought that if you have genuine weapons - Swords, Butterfly Knives, Kosh's etc and used them for defending your home, then you entered a grey area as these are tools intented for fighting etc are illegal and the police will come down on you hard. So going to town on someone with an something like that will not do yourself any favours, despite you actually defending your home.

    However if you have a nice building instrument etc, and can show it was lying about as you were currently doing some "DIY " then your much more likely to get away with giving an intruder a good kicking.

    I have my trusty hammer under my bed. Its a beast of a battered old rusty hammer...which will do serious damge to any one who stupidly decides to enter my home uninvited. And if asked about why i had it to hand...well i was doing DIY earlier that afternoon and i hadnt put it away ......
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It is more about intent than the weapon used. Did you use force proportional to the perceived threat at that time, or were you looking for an excuse to harm someone with an object you intended to use as an offensive weapon?

    You just publicly published your intent to use that hammer as a weapon. If you injure an intruder, and if their defence have the time or inclination to search for this (unlikely if their defence is paid for by legal aid), then that could go against you in a trial.
    Mushroom likes this.
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Verily much this. Also....Police and Lawyers and Judges (despite what some social media posts state otherwise) aren't actually that dumb. Questions will be asked, how, where etc. you got the object. So using your hammer example, they will look around and call shenanigans where they see it.
    David Harrison likes this.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    David Harrison likes this.
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I like secret barrister
    Dead_pool likes this.
  12. Yes, i didnt think that this could "potentially" be found and used. However, an intruder should not be in my house in the first place.;)
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  13. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    It has happened before
    David Harrison likes this.
  15. Sorry I have no idea. I would try to walk away. You don't want take a chance on getting injured especially if more than one person attacks you. I am in the US.

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