Progressive Strikes

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Shou Tu, Jan 9, 2004.

  1. shifu tiger

    shifu tiger enter my circle of death

    in response to your question there is a moore's shou shu school in hayward. check it out but be careful u might get addicted to it right away!! lol!
    good luck

    salute
     
  2. Guerilla Fists

    Guerilla Fists New Member

    Matt-
    A few posts ago you asked about what arts we've studied. I can only speak for myself. I've studied extensively Judo and Eskrima/Arnis.
    CKava-
    We just love our art. That's why we are so passionate.

    8
     
  3. redantstyle

    redantstyle New Member

    The Shou Shu guys sound like kuntaoers....lol

    abrupt arts make for direct people.

    Let me guess, you advocate striking first or pre-emptively?

    Peace.
     
  4. Indestructible

    Indestructible New Member

    you mean there is another choice?!;) lol
     
  5. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    Defensive or Offensive either way its progressive striking.
     
  6. Sub zero

    Sub zero Valued Member


    oh dear.
    I agree that in a small number of situations it is necisary.But not most of the time.
     
  7. Ninestep

    Ninestep grumpy old man

    SSB : "I found out that Shou Shu is documented in China as a respected art and its rank is accepted within China. "

    The truth and nothing but...
    So, can you tell me where have you found this out and where is it documented?
     
  8. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    I'm curious about that too. I haven't been able to find much on the art. Personally I'm curious because there seem to be numerous similarities between the way Shou Shu is described and my core art. Unfortunately the history of my art isn't well documented after a certain period, and I've been very interested at finding clues as to our possible lineages.

    Unfortunately, the only history that I've found of Shou Shu attempts to trace it's development to Egypt and then traveling into China. That seems like a bit of a strectch. The instructor who wrote this (who is no longer part of the main Shou Shu organization) also tends to dodge any question about hard documentation about the history of the art.

    So any references online or offline would be great!

    - Matt
     
  9. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    Shou Shu is documented in present time under the current teachings. Da' Shifu Sr and Da' Shifu Al Moore II have gone to china several times in the late 80's and early 90's. That is where Shou Shu the art Da' Shifu teaches became documented.

    As said before Shou Shu is not the name of the art Da' Shifu Sr learned, it is the name he called it. The name of the art he learned is still uncertain because of the Family lineage the art takes. One family will know the same art as another but called it by a different name.

    As far as the history past where Da' Shifu Sr was taught the art i cant verify. As i have stated before I personally stop my search and am satisfied with knowing Where my Da' Shifu learned the art.

    Salute,
     
  10. Ninestep

    Ninestep grumpy old man

    "Shou Shu is documented in present time under the current teachings. Da' Shifu Sr and Da' Shifu Al Moore II have gone to china several times in the late 80's and early 90's. That is where Shou Shu the art Da' Shifu teaches became documented. "


    Most commonly recognised traditional Chinese boxing styles in China and Hong Kong, have old established associations/organisations which hold lineage records and pictures, usually in a shrine/altar to the founders.
    These can be fairly easily traced. In fact these days some of them even have websites.
    In mainland China it is common for villages or areas to hold lineage or have tradition with teaching and training of particular styles, which again can often be traced.
    I am kidding you not when I tell you that I know a man (not know of, know), who made up a style after being taught for a couple of years by another man who made up his style. Now aspersions are not being cast as to the effectiveness etc etc of these styles, that is besides the point. The point is he claims that his style is recognised by the PRC in China, because he paid someone to make up a certificate which says that it is.
    Of course this style has very few practitioners, is limited to a small geographic area, and has a spurious history at best.
    The spiel also claims that it is an ancient Chinese boxing style
    et al ad infinitum blah blah blah.
    The point of the posters asking questions (myself included), is not to question how 'good' your style is in any way shape or form, but to question why it is necessary for the '2000 years old, taught to Royalty,no-one has ever ever seen it' stuff.
    There have been a lot of posts over the last few months about and around Shou Shu, and frankly there has been a great deal of contradiction in the Shou Shu camp, but every time it seems to be calmed, someone in the camp will pipe up with another spurious claim, and, as Vic 'n' Bob used to say I won't let it lie.
     
  11. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    Ninestep,

    the History of "Shou Shu" Basically Goes back to When Da' Shifu Sr Named it that. The original name of the art is unknown to me. Da' Shifu Sr put that name on what he taught because he had earned all 7 animals it is said that he learned the art in (pronounced) TIN SIN(sp), China. Now the 2000 yr history is not being claimed by Moores Shou Shu all the conversations with Moores Black Belts is that Shou Shu has been taught to the general public for over 40yrs. Prior to that Da' Shifu only taught his family. Da' Shifu Sr was 75 when he passed away in 2002, he started learning the Art at age 14. Once he earned the Title Da' Shifu he named the art he taught Shou Shu. That is where Shou Shu's History starts as far as I am concerned. If I can ever be shown that it is verified beyond that point under the original name of the art it would be good reading.

    Salute,
     
  12. Black Armor

    Black Armor I want your centerline!

    why hasn't anyone touched on the shou shu sign "magic hands" or "magic weapons" ?
     
  13. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    hmmm good question Flow. dont have a clue kinda took it for granted.
     
  14. Indestructible

    Indestructible New Member

    I don't know, why?:D
     
  15. shifu tiger

    shifu tiger enter my circle of death

    look everyone, shou shu is and has always been a bit secretive. the magic hands symbol means several things. from what i understand da shifu went over to china as an equivalent to a 1st degree shifu. 2 and a half years later came home as a da shifu, [grand master]. mastering all 7 beasts as a very young man. there is very little written about it officially, as shou shu blue has said. da shifu's sr. and jr. have been teaching for 40 years but the art is many many thousands of years old, probably more like 8 or 10 thousand years. da shifu called it shou shu, meaning beast art. but from what i understand each beast had it's own name, in fact each beast, in order....... bear, tiger, mongoose, white crane, mantis, cobra and dragon are complete fighting systems in themselves. da shifu al moore took lessons everyday on each beast for the 2 and a half years. ninestep was wondering why not much documentation on the art, shou shu has not been commercialized. so therefore not much info. very secretly gaurded. there is no contradiction! we are all unified on shou shu. the how's why's and wherefores are all meaningless. shou shu is many thousands of years old, past down from da shifu to da shifu over and over and is taught the same way since its beggining. taught in its purest form.


    salute
     
  16. TigerGrishkin

    TigerGrishkin Banned Banned

    Shifu Tiger,
    How do you *know* it's thousands of years old, and taught in its purest form? You simply do not.

    Shou Shu is about as commercialized as they come. There's a school in like every city in NorCal. Year-long contracts, seminar weekends/camps.

    It is also quite clearly a Chinese Martial Art. It seems to have a lot in common with Southern Mantis, Hung Gar and White Crane. It also has strong Kempo roots.

    Al Moore Sr. quite clearly synthesised a number of arts and created his own.

    Just like Hung Hei Goon and Mas Oyama among others. I am not a Shou Shu nutrider, as some of my comments here and on other threads demonstrate. But it seems CMA people get entirely too hung up on the lineage.

    There is only one test of legitimacy: does it work?

    And any CMAist who went to a Shou Shu school would recognize quite a lot of what they do.

    You also need to quit doing the fake Katana work. I don't know if it was just one misguided Shifu doing that or not. I hope it was.

    As for progressive striking. Any art worth a bit has it. But Shou Shu seems to try to program you. Shou Shu is too technique-obsessed. Practical-minded, but technique-obsessed.
     
  17. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Tiger,

    It's clear you and I have similiar views on the history of arts. Oral history needs to be respected, but only so far. If it can't be documented then you need to take the oral history with a grain of salt. Or treat it as a myth.

    That being said, the most important thing is the modern art. Like you said: does it work?

    - Matt
     
  18. Indestructible

    Indestructible New Member

    There is oral history and some circumstantial evidence, but it remains mostly a matter of opinion.

    Well, not every city yet and you completely forgot to mention the So-Cal cities.

    Who said it wasn't chinese? Shou Shu teaches seven animals so, of course, there is similarities with other animal based arts. Kenpo is derived from Shaolin Chuan Fa, Shou Shu has similar roots to Shaolin Chaun Fa, so it could be said that Kenpo has strong Shou Shu roots. Just another opinion.

    Shou Shu is seven arts. No need to synthesize others and Da Shifu Sr. was taught these seven as a complete art.

    Yes, history and lineage often times gets in the way. It works for me, and thats enough for me.

    Okay, many arts have similarities. I think we can all agree on this.

    ????

    Technique obsessed is your opinion, which you are entitled to. There is, however, far more than technique to Shou Shu.


    You know a little about us, we know very little about you. Most of what you have shared is not entirely correct, or maybe I'm missing the point. I'm not really understanding what you hope to accomplish by telling us your opinions about our art.
    Thanks,
    Indy
     
  19. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    Shou Shu is based on Principles. The techs are used to teach student the principles, the movement.

    I dont think we ever said we werent CMA. Progressive striking is programed, from the very first day. We are taught to hit our opponent until they are on the ground. No feeler strikes.

    Shou Shu is a fighting system based on the fighting principles of the 7 animals. now if something doesnt work it isnt used if it works it is used.

    YES IT WORKS.

    Yes obviously one is commenting on an art they looked through the window at and didnt bother to learn or pay attention to. Da' Shifu Sr. hid alot of secrets in Shou Shu. If you take the time to learn the material and not worry about a belt you will find those secrets.

    Salute,
     
  20. Black Armor

    Black Armor I want your centerline!

    TigerGrishkin wrote:Shou Shu is about as commercialized as they come. There's a school in like every city in NorCal. Year-long contracts, seminar weekends/camps.

    What in your weak opinion is not a commercialized school then?
    You voice seminars and camps as if they are open to the public or something. Does it work, why don't we find out my friend? I'll give you a personal demo free of charge, how's that for commercialized.
     

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