Progressive Strikes

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Shou Tu, Jan 9, 2004.

  1. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher


    I think we're thinking roughly the same thing. Part of the idea of progressive striking is that you're bringing more powerful strikes to bear each time.

    I'm not suggesting that you mamby-pamby the jab. But the jab simply doesn't carry the same power pound for pound as a cross. And additionally targeting is crucial in this equasion. A jab to the forehead isn't going to do much (toher than break your hand), but one to the neck or nose has a greater effect.

    Perhaps the best way to put the progressive power growth is that power increases as a byproduct of the choice of techniques that are thrown in combination with the forward momentum.

    I would also suggest that you might want to consider hitting the target with an much power as you can muster while still mantaining good balance and posture. Otherwise you risk overcommiting to technqiues and that can be dangerous as well.

    - Matt
  2. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    That is true in a real fight about variables. I havent heard of the following statement about the style i take but it seems to fit. "All of our strikes and attacks are inside the Gate."

  3. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    Matt - wholly unrelated styles of mantis, I expect.

    When I answered the thread last time I don't think I was at my interlecteral peak and I have another major point to mention.

    We're taught a particular method of striking from first form onwards. A punch lands and becomes a spear-hand to strike again in the same place. This was almost seen in "The Matrix" when sum1 puches to the throat, it is caught but the puncher extends his fingers into a throat jab.

    So, we start with two and eventually build it up as the power becomes more subtle and controlled. The second and subsequent strikes don't have to be in the same direction as the first contact.

    For multiple strikes, to make them all max power would surely slow them down. You can't max everything all the time it'd be like having no reverse gear or steering wheel: sooner or later you'd end up with nowhere to go.

  4. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    Actually with building power for us is based on several different animals. while one animal may not be able to generate power in a certian stance or angle another would be used to generate that power. Constantly mixing the principles of generating power and stances makes it easier for us to generate power from all angles. I understand i will probably be questioned on this but seven animals is alot to diversify and utilize while fighting. I would say that i am not as confined to movment as much as one fighter might be only learning two animals or one animal.

    Again it is only my view of my art since it is the only one i train in.

  5. teacher

    teacher Valued Member

    I did a little southern mantis and curiously we did the opposite of what you describe.
    We would hit with firgertips, fold into leopard fist, then normal fist, then back of wrist.
    Mostly a training exercise for getting used to striking and then for releasing explosive striking without chambering but it did help to emphasise the principle of continuous stiking.
  6. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Quote "For multiple strikes, to make them all max power would surely slow them down. You can't max everything all the time it'd be like having no reverse gear or steering wheel: sooner or later you'd end up with nowhere to go."

    Thats where control comes in. You dont overextend allowing yourself to loosen up your guard.

    As for slowing down you can punch as fast as you want but if you dont know what your hitting and when to hit it, your just wasting energy. You strike as hard as you can with the correct timing. IMO speed is secondary to timing.
  7. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    dont know about punching like that but you might follow a zoned attack rather than attacking a persons centre line right away you might disable an arm and shouldber say wrist elbow then shoulder/collar bone giving you an opening for a centre line attack its called attacking the corners japanese fighting philosophy to weaken you opponent before finisishing them to make you attack easier for you
  8. marais

    marais New Member

    one strike=one break

    where i hit, it will be broken whether it is the first strike or the last.if i am aiming for your nose and you block it wrong,then i break your arm.the cycle repeats itself.but that is just the way that my martial art is used.
    personally ,i dont see the point of progressive punching.if you didnt hit your target the first time,you will be wasting energy and time.and if you hit your target,it takes you x amount of punches to put him down.why not just knock him for a loop first punch round.
    i dont mean to step on any toes,this is just my opinion.
    but if you find it effective to use progression.its up to you
  9. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    So deflections and counters don't work on you, marais? Theory's fine but application..?

    Teacher, I guess you trained a Jook Lum style :). I'd be happy doing it your way because there's no set progession for continuous striking - it's whatever is required.

  10. marais

    marais New Member

  11. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Agreed. Timing and control of distance trumps speed ('cause together they create "speed"). And the idea of choosing your stikes fits right into the idea of progressive hitting. Each strike should (In theory) set up the next hit.

    Again, I think we've been lost in symantics (as often happens when you're trying to describe physical concepts). What your describing is progressive hitting. And as I've stated before, it's hard to find an art that doesn't do it.

    - Matt
  12. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Have you broken many bones? Because personally I think bones are slightly more resilent than your giving them credit for.
    No-one seems to be suggesting that you dont hit the target the first time. However if while hitting 'the target' the first time you are in the process of moving to hit 'the target' a second time, common sense would suggest your going to be a bit more prepared/harder for 'the target' to deal with than someone who thinks that their first hit is all they need.
  13. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    ACtually, in many respects this is how my art functions. As you progress to the higher levels and further into the classical material (from the modern concepts that beginners learn) the art focuses on understand which animals function at what ranges and switching persona as you traverse the ranges to put yourself in the most advantageous position.

    - Matt
  14. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

  15. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    This has actually become a very informative thread.

    Didnt think there would be this much positive input about progressive striking.
  16. shifu tiger

    shifu tiger enter my circle of death

    shou shu is nothing but progressive striking! from the moment u walk into your studio. most others have major stops in their motion, which in turn, stops and pauses chi. shou shu has no stops, therfore it has pure flowing chi! ok? end of debate on progressive weapons. i have good friends studying kenpo and they DO NOT have progressive weapons, they do not use their bodies to reenforce their weapons, they have no flow and can't relax either. honestly i don't know what they're suppose to be doing. i have seen other arts up close and compared to shou shu they may as well be dancing or something. it mystifies me! nothing but telegraphs and swings.

    shifu tiger
  17. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    I can feel the love Shifu
  18. shifu tiger

    shifu tiger enter my circle of death

    trying to get common sense ideas through to some of these people is like friggen pulling teeth!!!!!!!! blue look at some of my other posts and you'll see what i mean, it makes me wanna pull out my friggen hair!!! read the one about blackbelts. just reading what these other people write comfirms to me just how many light years shou shu is beyond anything else.
  19. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    totally agree with you Shifu. I like the debating talks that come from asking questions on here to see if anyone is really listening.



    Shifu im off to finish up here at work. get my mind set for Group tonight.

  20. marais

    marais New Member

    and also i am not saying the FIRST hit is all i only need ONE hit may it be the first or tenth.and as for planning,targets move,you cant be prepared for someone to move where you want them to,cause they wont!
    i dont mean to come across arrogant,i only speak from what i have experienced.

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