Professor Chow Gravesite

You're off the mark here, one group claiming one thing and another group claiming another. You are condeming yourself I have said none of those things.

As far as Vernon Kam is concerned he mentioned he was an 8th Dan, others say not. Now Lester said to me in the new letter that he is an 8th Dan...

Problem here is he is an 8th Dan under Frank Chow I believe. Also the son of Professor Chow mentions he was an 8th Dan. What have you shown me other than GM Sam Kuhoa mentioning he is not an 8th Dan?

Strickly asking others opinion of moving graves and putting them in other locations. Lester Chow feels they should not be moved.

I am for what is best for those who are inclined to want to do what the family feel is right. If this person is a druggee as you mention it does not diminish his association as being the son. :topic:

You have mentioned the tapes and videos before and never produced them.
When asked for the name of the person writing me, I did so because I was asked by another person whom I have met and like, simple. :topic:

Back to topic.

Chow is not wanting to move these Ladies, it is GM Sam Kuhoa, who is moving them. Paying good money and thinking it is the right thing to do. If you did not confuse the issue so much you might be making some sense. LOL..

I have seen some information that states GM Sam Kuhoa is family and is the GM of the organization who wants to move them. It looks like a court issue to me. You can not move graves without a court order I am thinking.
So GM Sam has mentioned it cost $35,000.00 to have it done and it is going to get done I'd say. Cremated remains in a container to a better spot for a man who deserves it and his wife. What is wrong with that?

As far as it being any of my business, it is everyones business, and you should know that or else it would not have cost to get permits etc.. It takes money to do what you have done and like you mentioned a love of the person by you. If the others did not want it done they should have fought it in the court or at the correct location to have it stopped. Maybe that is what is being done as we speak of maybe not.

In some circles it is considered grave robbing. You have paid the price to move them, simple. I am sure there are many hoops you are jumping through to get it done, more power to you, IMHO.

The Mod wrote me about it being moved: The thread that is

Sorry mate, it stays where it is. It's an art-specific issue, and as such it belongs in the relevant section
It's also really none of MAP's business, certainly no business of those that don't study the art.

That is the feeling of the Moderator. I wonder if he feels the grave should not be moved.

Gary

 

It goes back to NCK and that organization Sam and you know it. There are several organizations involved and they still feel strongly that others should be the true inheritor of the art of Chow and feel you are not representing the art as it was. Similar to many who are unhappy with how certain groups display an art that was once one way and now another. Many EPAK groups come to mind, and a few Kosho Ryu orgs. also.

You have been given Kara Ho and done what you felt was right. From what I have read you have been doing a good job. (Takes a strong person to fight all the BS, many just quit).

From others who feel different it will always be the same, and they will not give in either. Some ask for unity and others don't want it. It is your job to do what you think is right.

Not a biggie, if I was the GM of the organization (which you are) and the power of the organization, is behind you.

When you wrote Vernon Kam and had him stop using your name (Kara Ho) as his you won that round. He has changed the name, but still claims to be an 8th Dan. So that is where it is at now. Others say you are wrong about his claim.
So if I was caring about it and took a pole and more outside your group said he was an 8th and some of the information I sent to you has claimed he was a Sensei and teaching when you took over, I'd say there is just cause to not believe he is only a white belt.

But that is your contention a white belt, and his is different. There was an article I sent that confirms he was a sensei, Sam. 2 times I have mentioned the article.
If he is no good in your art it might be because he never studied yours, and why he changed the name.

You will never change his mind by your assertions and it appears you won't change John James mind, or William Chun Jr's either.
Pretty much a closed issue I'd say.

Good luck.
Gary

 

hmmm

"Pretty much a closed issue" ?

How can it be closed when you make it your full-time job to regurgitate info. (usually in vague fashion) that "seems" to stir the pot.

I agree that most of this will never change- old school Chun people and Cerio people (Cerio trained 3 weeks total with Prof. Chow by the way) will assume their way is the way of Professor Chow but that was in the 50-60's Much changed between then and 1987. Two different schools of thought---no debate there. Scientists from 1960 might have a different view than one in the 80's, just a guess...

I am not worried about other Org's. I am however concerned about high ranking claims from supposed "Kara-Ho" people when they have NOTHING TO PROVE IT. yes, I saw the article mentioning Vernon as "Sensei" but I do not necessarily believe what I read in the papers. I think fact checking in the HI news back then might leave something to be desired.

We are the only ones who helped Professor and Patsy when they were alive and now that they have passed. Is that up for debate? Did someone else do this unbeknownst to me?

You cause trouble gary, it is what you do- Disguised as a "neutral party" looking for the truth... At times I enjoy your ramblings but Vernon an 8th dan? This should be easy for him to prove--- whay has he not? Why did he change the name of what he teaches when he could prove he is legitimate?


Full of holes gary, you gotta admit the whole thing is shady. Don't get me started on Lester Chou. He is a joke/crackpot.

 

You seriously need to avoid those circles Gary.

 

So what you're saying is that the Organisation has not consulted with ANY of the immediate family about this?
I'm pretty sure that SOME close family members have to be involved for something like that to go ahead, so if that's the case I'm highly doubtful of the thing going ahead at all.

If SOME family members have agreed to it and others disagree, it is a family feud and really no-one elses business but their own.

I think this is a fair point.

However unless he's the only surviving close relative or NO consultation has taken place with ANY of the close family, I'm still not seeing what this situation has to do with anyone else.

 

Ahh!!!! Gary you nutter you

 

Two side's to every story James.
One of the feelings in the whole of Kem/npo from the EP Sr point of view is Chow was an instructor of EP Sr. Many considered him what you mention about Lester also. But that did not diminish his one true good attribute.

But it has led most to disassociate with him and another that was in Hawaii named James Mitose.

You calling me names and saying all I am doing is stiring up trouble is untrue, and it shows how narrow minded and single focused you are in your thought.

Like I mentioned if GM Sam had to pay $ 35,000.00 to have this done he is focused and had to jump through many hoops to get this done. More power to him, I have said.

As far as Vernon goes I am not sure. So it is a situation of more information is needed.

You need to investigate it more, are you afraid that maybe he was a black belt? I'd say he was that at one time. Many have self promoted to gain position EP Sr. Chow, Emperado many many many. Those were just the big name's that came out of Hawaii. I could go on and on.

Chow even laid the position of 15th on himself. Now that is truly telling of an "ego" that was in bloom.


James:
Stay to the topic at hand, and tell me why other family members who are poor and don't have the resourses to fight this, cannot express their thoughts?

Lester knows me from all the topics I will address, where others won't, simple.

Sort of like the news media, they go places others fear to tread. For reasons about life, liberty, and freedom I'd think.

Regards,
Gary

 

Why? there is nothing to investigate....you have no idea about anything do you Gary....you just go around and around...typical of a dog chasin his tail

 

Thanks for the imput, I'd really like to have seen this in another location for all of the folks that might not be so opinionated as in it being a one side vs another, but just a good view of what is right and wrong about moving a grave site.

As I have mentioned, GM Sam is/was jumping through all the hoops to get it done. Others may have been trying to have it stopped and decided to go to the person "Lester Chou" for he is in the location of where it is being done.

I'd say the price of having it done is heavily influenced by travel back and forth to the Islands to do paper work and other things that might be just not in the capacity of others to do.

So Lester who is a relative, and the son, who may be against it have asked others to help. The covert way is not always the easiest way, I don't know if the item has been put into a local paper (i'd think that is mandatory).
The thought as to what is right and wrong about moving ones remains if you are the closest relative and do not want it done, is what is important, I'd think.

I believe it is being done with a pure heart from GM Sam for a better resting location for his GGM.

But it is also in some circles not done for religious beliefs, and the afterlife "death" it is not something others should mettle with???

But in a society which says one thing and does another it is not hard to understand. If it was up to devout Chinese thinking I doubt it would be done.

The resting place would just be made more beautiful and handled that way. Raise a shrine etc. comes to mind.

But it is pursuing its natural course it appears and will be accomplished. But at least it is exposed to the light of day and not done at night as has been done in the past.

Regards,
Gary

 

Apparantly in your way of thinking it is, Send me proof as others have mentioned about all the tapes. As I sent it to Nuck about the letter (e-mail).

It is pretty simple supply something like I did about the fact that Vernon was a "sensei" in print in a public magazine and that will be good. Yes/no???

Not a first degree but a second in most organizations that feel the sensei is the teacher and only one to a dojo as a rule with the organization I am involved with.

Pat Kelly is the Sensei, he is the owner and all who assist are not Sensei's. Even if they are black belt, but that is but one dojo and yours maybe different.

So give me something that will override the article, simple.

If in a court of law you would be told to show the evidence or quit the accusation. GM Sam, should know that with the "LEO" background I'd think.

Regards,
Gary

 

Ok, but I still dont understand.
Are you saying that the Organisation consulted any of the family or not?

 

Well if this isn't the pot callin the tea kettle black........after all the crap that you post and were asked for proof of evidence...and not provided it...please!!!

Oh, and we are not in a 'court of law' either....this is a MA forum....just a lil reminder

 

As I said earlier, if you want a proper discussion about something like that dont mention names.

 

That is something that seems to be the case, no one that is family has been contacted.

The wild card here, is that I have read GM Sam is now claiming to be a distant relative. But other's say that is not the case. Maybe he will comment?

So the family members are the ones who contacted me, to bring it out in an open forum to be discussed.

If that is wrong of me, I believe it is a fair issue and could be handled if GM Sams Organization did not have so much "contempt" for the living member and sat down with him and did a parley of sorts. That is really the issue, truly the problem as it has been mentioned to me by Lester Chou.

Easy to be solved I'd think, parley with the man.

Regards,
Gary

 

I could have done that, but others then accused me as being the person instigating it, when in fact I am just a messenger.

Gary

 

It matters not what we find in this forum it matters in a court of law about moving a grave site, though. LOL...

What information do I now need to show???

I gave the information to a third party "Nuck" he did what he did, or did not do.

I have presented you with an article about Vernon, so present me with the stuff you have mentioned at numerous forums but have not produced as of yet.

The SJK forum asked for the evidence did you ever give it to Ted as was asked?

Gary

 

See Gary, that is where you are wrong because I don't recall receivng any "article" on Vernon Kam. And what numerous forums are you talking about since this is the one I mainly frequent??

And for being part of the "bullshido" group of idiots you are trying so dearly to align me with, I'm not even a member of that forum, so do try and keep your crap straight and in order. It's amazing how you got yourself banned from there, so who actually is the bigger idiot?? I think you know the answer

I would have hoped that your little 'getaway' in Tahoe would have fixed you some, but I guess that was just wishful thinking.

 

:saz: :Aegis: call anyone! this is getting out of control...

 

I e-mailed you about those thoughts so keep them there if you will.

I guess you and Jamie never communicate. He knows all about it. So does Your GM Sam, you must be out of the link?

:saz:

Gary