Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Dean Winchester, Jun 21, 2014.
He's a liar and a fraud - screw his dignity
Still doesn't make it right. Still doesn't mean it isn't fraud.
If he had "just" claimed 10th dan, then that would be one thing. It would be hilariously bad and he'd be written off as yet another MA fraudster and a symbol of how ridiculous dan gradings can be.
Except he chose to accept the MBE. He could have refused it but instead chose to accept a publicly recognisable award for his contributions in something it seems he's never actually contributed in. There's really nothing left to say except that he's put himself in this situation. Honours Committee mistake be damned, there's nothing in writing that insists that he "had to accept" their mistake.
Oh I agree, that's why I also said:
And I'd go as far as to agree that the Committee who presented this to be awarded also deserve to have it pointed out that they clearly didn't put any effort into actually checking out this guys' credentials or even bother asking anybody who knows anything about the MA community if this guy was legit and deserve to be exposed as being morons.
I have seen some desperate attempts to play Devil's advocate on MAP, but the examples on this thread are laughable.
Found an interview by the man himself from a few years ago. It's very long but worth a read.
I will say though I don't think he knows the meaning of "respectfully", "humbly" and "not arrogant".
Before we fully damn the honours committee , I'd quite like to know what "supporting documentation" was supplied by this lobbying company he's apparently used , I suspect that may explain some of it.
Though he technically hasn't harmed anyone , his mistake was trying to blag a title/award people actually care about.
Most people would be honored to receive an MBE , and its generally accepted that anyone who does receive one has done something a bit special.
It appears he's got his mate to nominate him and used some dodgy lobbying company to push him forwards (probably ahead of more honest and genuine nominees) when he's done nothing to actually deserve the award.
The bottom line is , he played a game and got caught out , he must have known there was a risk involved.
You are right, it makes fascinating reading.
As I went through I was thinking that notwithstanding that if he had rendered many services to martial arts he should be known for it, he answers the questions quite thoughtfully, even if he seems to be playing the 'wise master' a bit too seriously.
Then I got to this bit:
"Although I am quite busy, not just with martial arts, but with my many years commitment to my Freemasonry (33° SGIG), Mensa (High I.Q.) Society, my family and my spiritual / charitable work; If I feel that a worthy project (such as your Louis) is very important and close to my heart, then I will ‘make time’ to give my utmost effort to helping those who help others."
...and I thought,
This is not a comment on the Masons or on this man's technical ability, - I don't know enough about karate to say he does not deserve his grade, though I do suspect that some of you do. I do not know enough about him to say that he has not been of service, maybe behind the scenes, since I don't know what scenes they might be.
What this excerpt does do is rather confirm my preconceptions as to the type of people who get public awards.
The awarding body may not have been tricked, exactly. It is perhaps simply more about who you know than what you have done, and who knows what you have done.
But that's just cynical old me.
(... and surely many of them have done well.
I'm not defending his fantasies, but I'm not getting in on MAP's trademarked schadenfreude either. The criticism and media administered punishment is way out of proportion with the crime.
So two people, Aegis and myself, contact the Honours Committee, while everyone else is just involved in an internet forum discussion and you think we're an over-reactionary kangaroo court?
Do you really feel it's MAPs trademark?
I agree, I just hope that he hasn't damaged the reputation of legitimate martial artists - my personal feeling is I am sure there must be an awful lot more deserving cases than what I have read of his achievements so far. The fact he isn't even train at the moment is very damning as one of the criteria is you must be currently doing what you are nominated for, what were his deserving achievements anyhow?
I think contacting the Honours Committee is a reasonable step to take given suspicions about the credentials of a nominated person. I think the media firestorm and the glee that people are taking in the downfall of a man who has, so far as we know, harmed no one, is an over reaction and somewhat distasteful.
I think MAP has a long history of leaping all over anyone whose lineage doesn't sound right or whose technique doesn't match their grade or whose business practices we disapprove of and in most cases, it's fair enough because those people are trying to sell something or otherwise make a profit from those lies. This guy hasn't done that, yet he is getting the full on Ashida Kim treatment by MAP even as his life is being unravelled by the press.
I'm taking no glee out of this.
It's not really about the 10th dan as such , it's about the MBE , the only reason it's come up on MAP is because it's meant to be for services to martial arts , the tabloids are involved because the award is still perceived as something quite special , as I said , he must have realised there was a chance of this happening.
To date, I don't think anyone knows for certain. At least not in the media. The information the Honours Committee might have been different mind.
He's tried to write several books (though at least by the looks of them he hasn't managed to get them published), he has actually admitted to teaching his own students his own brand of...karate(?) and he's promoting himself off a grading system and lineage that frankly beggars belief.
Put simply, he's using that dodgy background to claim an MBE for something that frankly, it doesn't seem he's done. Instead of refusing it, he's openly declared that he deserves it.
I don't like this any more than you do, I admit. But he has put himself in this situation. By his own admission from his interview in 2002, he has tried to profit from his training. He has tried to sell himself as an authority on the subject. He has claimed awards that it frankly feels like he hasn't earned. He may not be as extreme as Ashida Kim or Anthony Cummins but that doesn't mean he's any better.
If he had been given an MBE for rescuing people from a burning car and it later transpired he had lied about it would you consider the MBE fairly awarded?
He lied, he got busted - like Milli Vanilli
I've never said the mbe was fairly awarded, my problem is with the disproportionate response to it.
Arnt you a karate blackbelt too? Do you have any shared lineage with the professor?
I don't think it is disproportionate - it just happened to be in a very specialist group/area that has precious little mainstream exposure and who don't want a liar and a worthless piece of crap upheld as representative
In what way is national media coverage a proportionate response? He's basically been put in the 21st century version of the stocks in the village square. But at least you're entertained.
I'd love to see Bullshido's reaction to this. MAP is like apple pie in comparison. Besides, the response from martial artists on Facebook (British and lowly non-British alike), even those who don't go on forums, has been exactly the same: one of facepalms and ridicule. He's not good enough for a 10th dan, never mind a bloody MBE.
Other than Gichin Funakoshi, no, we share no lineage, instructors, venues etc etc.
Separate names with a comma.