Probably not going to Stick with it, so what should I take from it?

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by Botta Dritta, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    I'm into my second kickboxing lesson. I usually box so this is entirely new to me. I have done some low kicks with my taijiquan training before but never to a great extent and they were nearly always low line to shin.

    Im kind of doing it to do something different, as my trainer usually can teach both boxing and K1 kickboxing. Thing is....I'm actually NOT enjoying it. While usually I take to physical activity and body co-ordination like duck to water, I'm finding kicking really hard and counter intuitive. (I'm still going to give it a go for a bit - because I'm bloody stubbon) but I can't see myself sticking with it, and both myself and my coach know this.

    Admittedly I am 36 and my leg flexibility is not what it is was, And I read somewhere that while boxers can box into middle age, kickboxers tend to be ...younger. So I'm going to dip into into for a number lessons, and both my coach and I have decided to go back to Boxing when we both feel Ive gone as far as technically I can go.

    So my question is what should I take from my brief foray into to kickboxing? Are ther any tactical manouvres or particular skill sets that a boxer should take particular notice of which could prove usefull in:

    A) On the Canvas
    B) Self Defence

    Now ...yes obviously I'm learning to kick and perhaps spot or defend against kicking attacks, so its an entirely new range (im stocky though so my arms are almost as long as my legs!). Im more thinkig about subtle things that you might not necessarily think of, that boxers or kickboxers have found from experience, so that I can focus on them in the forthcoming lessons.

    Thankyou for your patience.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I don't think you are giving it enough time to progress. Nothing gained by not putting forth the effort AND time
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Learn to recognise what a kick looks like when it starts. Rather than checking it or blocking simply circle out to avoid the main arc of impact. Boxing footwork would work just fine like that.

    You also said you are doing k-1 but if you the chance learn to clinch. My instructor says that the clinch only improves with age and learning. Learn counters and the basics of how to not get kneed in the head.
  4. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    That two sessions in aren't enough to properly learn how to kick, even though most stuff might come naturally to you.
    I might not look like it, but there's a ton of technique behind even the simplest kicks.

    Personally I like learning that stuff, that comes harder to me.
    In case I ever get better at those, it was worth it.
    Of course, I still like the easy stuff as well ;) :D

    If you're just not having doing it, quitting of course is good idea. No need to keep doing a sport, you don't enjoy.
  5. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Its kind of why I'm doing it, I have an opportunity to give it a go so why not!, nothing to lose. I'm not going to judge kickboxing on a mere two lessons (that would be a special type of dumb), its just that I get the feeling that in this particular instance the learning curve, at least physically will be personally quite steep, and I might be just better off eventually going back to continue to perfect boxing instead.

    Chaddez suggestions was actually interesting as in the last lession my instructor touched on two points he brought up 1)Parrying and 2) Clinchwork

    1) Parrying. I practiced forward hand low hook parry and a rear low hook parry against a straight kick . The suggestion was that the first spins the opponent round, and mitigates his ability to hit you but in a sporting context you cant hit back (hes facing away). The rear parry instead takes the opponent off balance for a fraction of a second and still allows you some tactical flexibility to deliver the jab/hook
    Chadderz - you feel from experience its better to avoid kicks althoghether using footwork and space. Reasons? Does anyone else find this as well?

    2) Clinchwork. This was more to do with some Ringcraft we were practicing, blading up when being forced to the ropes and spinning off where the greater space is. My question was: what happens when you screw up and move to the smaller space or are muscled there by force into say the corner? Apparently Evasive head work and parrys/covers only Buy you so much time, so we worked on some clinchwork, which oddly enough I've never done enough of. Is Clinchwork even more important in Kickboxing? (Tactical reasons please)

    3) Last of all following chadderz suggestion (I'm greedy) what are the classic things to look when a person is just about to kick? Not talking about a champion who doesnt telegraph anything. Im talking about mundane stuff from a self defence point of view. ( for teh d3@dley str33tz)
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I didn't say that evasion is always the answer. It would just be quicker for you to learn to avoid than to learn to cover.

    Clinching covers a good deal and it is not based off athletecism. You can only improve it. It also works incredibly well for small space fighting.

    Non-trained folk will kick like they kick a football/rugby ball. Lots of "run up". Kickboxers thai fighters etc don't train against it. It would be like a boxer defending a sloppy extremely telegraphed right hand.

    Pros kick with the hips first. Only way to train for it is to practice. No other way about it.
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    From a SD angle, leg kicks are really really handy if you find yourself on the wrong end of a "social fight", putting someone down with leg kicks is much more socially and legally acceptable then KOing them.
  8. WelshMikey

    WelshMikey New Member

    Firstly I would like to agree with the others that 2 lessons are not enough to learn how to kick, that being said if you need more motivation early on, or perhaps an easier way of kicking, you could try alternative methods. Ofcurse I don't know which methods your club teaches but for example:

    For roundhouse and eternity kicks try kicking at a 45 degree angle into the rib cage instead of horizontally. Don't forget to have your non-kicking leg facing at a 45 degree angle to your opponent. Foot work is very important in kicks, for horizontal roundhouse kicks you could even try having your non-kicking let at a 90 degree angle like Bass Rutten does in MMA.

    Instead of side kicks where it can be hard for a new learner to chamber the kick properly try a back kick instead. For this your non-kicking leg points directly away from the opponent (i.e. the heel faces your opponent), your kicking leg extends outwards at what ever angle feels natural to you. Don't forget to look at your opponent. Try to attack with the heel rather then the knife edge of the foot if this is more comfortable for you.

    For front kicks and front snap kicks again there are many methods you can try, experiment with them, for example you can lean back slightly giving you slightly better height to your kicks. If you want to keep your distance rather than cause damage raise your knee up and then extend your leg for the kick in a snapping action rather than a push.

    Keep practicing and I am sure you will progress, good luck.
  9. McBryde Mats

    McBryde Mats New Member

    For the canvas; the short inside kick to calf

    For self defense; use your hips to run, with only a few weeks you wont be very proficient in kicking in an adrenaline response situation :)
  10. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Only 2 lessons? For some people it can take months to learn how to kick properly.

    Age is just a number. I have people in their 40's training with me who started out with similar issues.

    Don't expect everything to fall into place instantly. Alot of people think Kickboxing looks easy to do and feel like they should be able to throw kicks like they're the next Buakaw when the reality is that it isn't that easy and then they give up because they don't see instant improvement after a week.

    Stick with it. You can learn to box aswell. You're not limited to doing one or the other. Just focus on your basics instead of trying to over analyse everything so soon.

    There are many ways to counter kicks. Block & counter, parry & counter, catch & counter, evade & counter, counter strike, stop block & counter, counter sweeps.

    Clinchwork only helps to a small degree in Kickboxing as there are limited clinch rules in place. It helps if you're good at clinching for corner work and dumps etc, but you need to adapt it to the Kickboxing ruleset.

    From a self defence viewpoint watch the shoulders & weight distribution. It's pretty easy to tell when your average joe is loading up for his penalty kick attack.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  11. LetsGetItOn

    LetsGetItOn Valued Member

    No, i don't think that there's anything you will learn in only a handful of kickboxing lessons that could help you in a boxing bout. Sorry.

    If you box, you know how to punch. You don't need to kick, and you don't need to learn to defend against kicks.

    For the streets, maybe use the boxing skills you have, but recognise the distancing and only use a kick when necessary. Maybe one advantage you could have is by using a low kick to simply distract, then follow up immediately with fast, hard hands.

    Apologies if i've missed a point or two here.
  12. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    In you could practice recognizing nascent kicks and learning to jam them with covering low kicks of your own. You could use jamming to neutralize the threat of kicks as you move in to hand striking distance.
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Lads the thread was started back in September I suspect the TS has made his mind up by now and isn't reading the thread anymore!
  14. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Actually I do, but the thread should have been necro'd a while back. It still my intention to give kicking a chance, but If i do so i would need to devote proper time to it rather than the paultry time spent on it last year. I just went back to enjoying boxing. I think when I wrote the post I was a bit frustrated at how i totally sucked at kicking as Im usually quite good at picking up physical motor skills. Even when I'm not brilliant at something I usually can see a pathway or incremental development (I'm too tense and woulnd up for taiji, but even so I could see some improvement in my first lesson). I sucked at kicking from the first minute to the last. It was totally alien feeling to me.

    In a way is quite eye opening because I got a first taste of how some people feel if they are not paticulary coordinated or athletic. The articles of adults saying how much they hated PE lessons in school make a little more sense now I felt a bit of it myself.
  15. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    Well since it still lives and you plan on giving it another go in the future. I have been kicking for years and sometimes still have difficulty with them. They take minnutes to learn and months to get good at. I do karate point sparring, and essentially kickboxing with mma fighters huge difference in how I throw my kicks. For a while we had an actual kickboxing class at our gym. One of the better kickboxers only threw low kicks.
  16. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Ok just Necroing (Nagashing?) this thread.

    Just under a year ago, I took the plunge again and started kickboxing haphazardly, mostly because I got bored with Boxing. Its been a tricky, I'm still not great at the kicking part of it (40 now and groin flexibility isn't what its used to be). However with diligence slowly, I'm going to do my Orange Belt Exam in about two weeks time.

    However after that I will have to stop for a while as I'm changing career, and things are in a state of upheaval in my life and I just cannot give firm commitments for the time being,

    I've told my instructor this and he understands. However if all goes well I plan to return in about four/five months time, as despite everything I'm enjoying it. I don't think I will ever get to black belt, but I think I have a couple more belts in me, and plus I hate quitting, because despite my previous misgivings it has been a blast.

    However Mappers I would like some advice:

    1) Any exercises particularly to groin/leg flexibility that I can keep practicing at home in my 4 months leave? I would particularly like to hear from anyone who had to take time out.

    2) Any other ideas, drill so as to not lose the skill set Ive been developing. Boxing is I think now pretty much ingrained it may rust, but never go away. Not sure about kicking.

    3) Being reduced now to only a fencer (not really a martial art) in the next few months can I still post here?
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    1. I'd advise you to look at Van Zants posts on stretching and flexibility.

    2. Heavy bag, pad work with friends and also shadow boxing are good ways to stay sharp.

    3. Of course you bloody can. We're all here to support each other through martial arts droughts!
    axelb and Botta Dritta like this.
  18. zombiekicker

    zombiekicker bagpuss

    36? God I feel old , im about to start getting back into training again , you are never too old
    Botta Dritta likes this.
  19. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Ha, he's 40 now!

    dude this is a good routine for the legs/ kicking, you're welcome :)

    Botta Dritta and Dead_pool like this.
  20. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    also, fencing i would say is 100% a martial art.
    no worries
    axelb, Frodocious and Botta Dritta like this.

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