Pro Bare Knuckle Boxing

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by David Harrison, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Just saw this.

    Severe lack of footwork and working angles, but some decent hand skills and head movement in places. Presumably skill levels will increase if it grows in popularity.

    I skipped a load because sport bores me, but thought it might be of interest.

  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    axelb and David Harrison like this.
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Dead_pool likes this.
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Isnt it crazy the bout with "Britain's worst boxer" was a headline match!
    Grond, axelb and David Harrison like this.
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Brings them publicity I guess...
  6. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Skill levels in orthopedic surgery , maybe. ;) It's not all that brutal compared to other sports, let's face it, but I'll admit it's hard to watch this stuff knowing what's happening to their hands and wrists. Hitting, getting hit, I'll take a glove in both cases any day. At some point you have to wonder what's more important, the spectacle and the lust over it, or the price paid by the fighters for pay. I don't see "bare knuckle boxer" being a profession with a positive outcome. I think this is why it's not big to date, didn't "pro" boxing evolve past this sort of thing?
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Less incidence of brain damage though, so I believe.

    I'd take some bone damage over brain damage any day.
  8. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Is that really true though? Has there been a CTE study for bare knuckled boxing? What I do know is your hand bones will give out way before your brain does, without proper protection, and your career will be over pretty quick.

    A big reason boxers wear gloves in the first place is to protect their hands (their single most important professional tool, like a dancer's feet), and of course that leads to longer fights and more potential brain trauma, but every single bare knuckle strike has the potential to break the hands, unlike in boxing. You might get some brain damage long term in boxing, but you're definitely going to end up with stubs for hands (and probably some brain damage too) in bare knuckle.

    Broken hands means you're not fighting professionally at the moment...from a financial point of view it makes no sense to do this professionally, really, especially given the payouts.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Hence why it' seems to be mostly, ex boxers, Ex mma guys etc trying to make some extra cash at the end of their working life.

    Less CTE in all likily hood, but still a very good chance of it, especially with any miss matches, which seems quite likily.
    Grond likes this.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    No studies that I know of, only expert opinions, so it's only a balance of probabilities, not proven. As well as the time factor you also have the fact that people hit a lot harder with gloves.

    Likewise, you sound very certain that bare knuckle boxers will end up with unusable hands in short order. Why are there bare knuckle boxers with such long careers then? Have you seen any studies?

    Fighting for a living is going to mess you up. I'd still take any amount of hand damage or less income from a shorter career over early onset dementia.
    Grond likes this.
  11. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Which experts do you mean? Medical doctors or something else? Because the evidence for barely knuckle leading to ruined hands has existed throughout the history of the sport and a major reason for the introduction of hand protection. I'm sure for every 1 long career bare knuckle fighter there could be hundreds who flamed out with phalanges turned to powder, you'll have never heard of.

    There are quite a few studies out there showing a big decrease in "acute" injuries (I read "career impacting" here) since modern boxong. There is also evidence suggesting that CTE found amongst boxers is more related to genetics and frequency of bouts than anything else (in the study below they claim 95% had less than 3 fights , meaning very low risk of brain injury).

    Boxing and the risk of chronic brain injury
    David Harrison likes this.
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Interestingly, the pro BKB shows seem to be using pro ex boxers, so it's not really a choice between the two, but more like first you get the cumulative damage, then we ruin your hands too.
    David Harrison and Grond like this.
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    BoxRec: Robin Deakin

    As the worst example, his boxing record is:
    55 fights, won 2, lost 53, and has been TKO 14 times.
    Grond likes this.
  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Exactly why this bothers me. It's basically taking advantage of retired (some for a good reason) fighters. I'll be the first to admit it's probably a lot of fun to watch IF you can turn off your inner empathy brain centers that echo every bone-testing strike (listen to the commentators in the first video, they are really aroused by it!). I can't help but look at the whole history especially why Queensbury and modern rulesets exist, and wonder about the value of going back in time like this, especially if it's just for spectators.

    What's the maximum purse in 2019 for a bare knuckle pro win? I'm scared to even google it.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    From the little I've seen, they using the mma scenes ticket cut (that you sell yourself) style of purse, so I'm not sure, but it's not going to be that much.
    Grond likes this.
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think it is hard to make pronouncements on the effect of gloves in modern versus historical boxing, because so many other variables have changed alongside it.

    Anyway, there has yet to be a comprehensive study of bare knuckle boxing versus gloved boxing, so really all we are doing is airing our opinions. All the doctors I've read on the subject have said that they believe gloves increase the risk of brain damage. I've not seen any studies on hand damage of bare knuckle boxing.

    I've also read the opinion that gloves were not introduce for the benefit of fighters, but to give the audience more head shots and knockouts to watch.
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I think it appeals to the "just bleed" MMA crowd. A smaller demographic but definitely still there. Personally I think it's a bit distasteful but many people who watch MMA don't like it so whatever.
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's funny, I think the opposite.

    I find BKB less distasteful, as in less violent, than MMA. I still find the whole concept of fighting for entertainment distasteful, but if I had to say which is worse I'd say MMA without hesitation.

  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    ...and why are there still ring girls in the 21st Century?
  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    The thing with MMA is that it can run the gamut of what combat can be in terms of violence.
    It can be almost non-violent when someone like Demian Maia or Kron Gracie fights. Clinch, takedown, advance position, submit. No damage, no blood. Clinical.
    There can also be absolute blood fests of multiple concussions, knockdowns and contusions over 25 minutes.
    It can end with a clean balletic high kick or a knockdown drag out mauling pummeling.

    I find boxing (BKB and regular) a bit more distasteful (not the right word but you get the drift) because it doesn't have the option of tapping out or being able to try to grapple or clinch to avoid damage.

Share This Page