pressure points uneffective in fights?

For my view of using pressure points in fighting is useless against other martial arts because we all know that most martial art styles will tell you to dodge a hit, block, and keep moving. To hit a pressure point would be extrememly hard because your opponent will keep moving and the target of a pressure point will probably change because of the movement of muscles. I've once asked my master about it and he said its useless unless your fast enough and have over 10 years training on just to hit one of the pressure points correctly.

 

isnt there already 2 active threads on PP?

 

I dunno... I wasn't active on the forums for a long time.

 

I don't think they are useless. How long does it take to make use of a pressure point? How long does it take to make use of a kick to the groin?

Last weekend, I had the opportunity to watch a video of several old UFC fights. There were a lot of tap outs. These were all fights against people that knew what would be coming.

 

Reply

There are already threads on this subject and I am already there trying to shed light on the subject. But....just so you know The reason so many western martial arts students and masters and some Grandmasters teach that Pressure points or Joint locks are ineffective is because they are being showed these moves and techniques improperly.


I travel alot from dojo to dojo, and we are actualy seeking out masters or grandmasters who have been Teaching for 30 years or more. Our school and system has a huge buddy list spanning from callifornia to texas, to florida to canada. We travel and send out students everywhere and teach other dojos our styles and learn thiers. It's a wonderful thing and not many dojos are open to that type of learning and sharing of information but we are.


One thing I have witnesses over and over is Aikido, Jujitsu, Judo, and Kung Fu masters teaching joint locks and pressure points wrong. Those styles are suppose to be the main supporters of it too so it makes the PP and JL look bad when the average joe whos over 250 pounds asks questions and the masters of the dojo fail at executing them.

PP are especialy very technical, when I am instructing we team up two people and take turns hitting each other in the PP we are learning. If the guy you are hitting does not feel like 50,000 volts just ran through him then it didn't work. What is so funny about this is I see so many older and expeirenced Martial artist lie and say "yeah that was it." when clearly the PP was not applied correctly. So I step behind the guy who is doing the PP I fold his hands how they should be and I tell them to relax and I make them Hit the other guy and the other guy usualy nearly ****es his pants and freaks out.

Even after they both witness the power of some more dangerous PP's and after I have stood behind them using them like a puppet and make them do it they still can not grasp the right way sometimes. It takes training to get them done properly and we use the below rules for PP as a training tool. Read them and I hope it helps.

PP RULE SET>
When learning Pressurepoints make sure your partner is effectivly telling you when you hit and miss it otherwise you will not be learning.

In order to learn it correctly you must have it done to you.

The biggest way to fail at PP is trying to hard, so Relax the body.

If you are bashing or power hitting the PP then you are not effectivly doing what the PP system is designed to show and do. You should be lightly touching hitting the man and should be reacting to the pain or numbness by both facial expressions and body language.


Having said that after you get Pressure points applied to you over n over n over n over you learn to take the pain and block it out and you learn to not react by pulling your arm back in pain and crying on the ground. But it's not easy and in most cases its like training yourself to grab a hot coal then drop it after a few seconds without holding your burnt hand or pulling it in.

PP's are able to drop anyone but they should not be used like that. Just like a groin kick or hit. You should effectivly use combo attacks to disarm, or maim and attacker so that they not only don't want to harm you but can't. I see schools teach 1 hitblows that take a man down. But the problem is during a sparr or Real fight you should do them in a combo so your skill comes out. If you were in a bar and just elbowed a person in the temple or nose hard sure they will stop fighting, but they won't fear you and probably won't rethink thier anger.

Martial arts should be taught so that you literaly are disabling and controlling the attacker so that they see they have no way out. Showing this much power over them and skill and then offering them peace is the way to go. People often misunderstand the Zen ideas of peace, and try to Not fight at all costs, but Zen teaches us about free will and how we should aid those around us. If a person has decided to attack you I say that you should defend and then break him to your on willpower. After the fight so long as he's not suffering broken bones or bleeding to death which you should never use that much power during a fight, you should come to your attacker and try to talk it out and begin peace.

I have been in so many real bar fights and I bounced for 1 year in the worse bar ever and in every case I offered the guy a drink and made friends afterwards. In many occasions at that bar the guys came in looking for trouble and purposaly asked around and targeted the bouncers. But my point is that if you did what was nessasary to defend yourself and applied some PP's the attacker will not be able to fight nor wish to.

 

to say pressure points cannot be hit against MA's is saying you will not be able to strike a MA at all!!!!

i think people have the wrong idea on pressure points. the strikes are not like "oh, i'ma tap them once hahah1!"

no. it often is used as a target... such as a certain area on the chest, arm, ect... they can be struck and used as targets on your centerline. i can much easier aim at a pressurepoint area then at a random area. it helps to increase your accuracy if you have a goal for your punches, does it not?

there are many ways to strike pressure points:
fists/palmstrikes (hit the region)
finger jabs (direct)
bill jee (darting hands, like a chop but instead of chopping, your thrusting forward with your fingers)

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/accu.asp

overwellming info! however, pick and choose what works for you as bruce would say. you do not need to know all 100 and some points to be effective. however, if you plan on striking the ribs, its good to know a more sensitive spot, if your going for the chest... sensitive target... if your going to squeeze their arm... squeeze the pressure point to make them weap in pain... if your going to elbow the back of their tricep, dig it into a pressure point or socket... ect

i know a few in each region. 1 on the chest, a few on the hand, one on the upper arm, 1 on the neck (area), the side of the head, above and below the lips in the center, to the side of the groin, on the side of the thigh (great for kneeing them) and one on the side of the foot (good for kicking thier foot hehe). the pressurepoints in the abdomonen are also very sensitive (if you believe in chi, this is where most of it gathers? or is formed?) so the stomach is also a good place to palms strike

i know less then a dozen, but they do help.

me, i do not really want to finger jab until i finish iron palm training, its not worth breaking my fingers. however i do like palm strikes because i hope to hit the pressure point, if not it still does alot of power, so its a win win.

pressurepoints are effective in combat, can they be every time? no. can they help? yes. will they give you a target? hopefully!

 

Can we please get a MOD to merge all of these threads? We have 3 active threads plus threadomancy.

 

Maybe we should add them to all the other threads which always end up with those who believe and those who dont. I like a few of them and a small number do work but those who want to believe they work all the time and want to rely on them should also be living on the moon.

 

I don't believe you should be chasing targets or "pressure points" during a fight. Train yourself to automatically strike the nearest target, don't go looking for one in a fight...does this make sense?

jroe52, in every thread you seem to have the answer to everything. Please could you tell me where I left my car keys this morning? Also, I'd quite like to know if a UFO crashed at Roswell, who my father was, and my expected date of death. many thanks

p.s. some clues on good stock investments would also be much appreciated.

 

Whats the obsessions with Pressure Points!!

For God sake heres a list of pressure points:

Temples
Jaw
Carotid Arterys and Neck in genrall
Sternum
Floating Ribs
Kidneys
Groin
Outside of the thigh

They work, they hurt, just because they arent some uber deadly secrets doesnt mean they aren't proper pressure points! Use them as icing on the cake, aim for them but swing hard enough that if you miss they are still going to notice the shot! Why do you need anymore than those?

In particular the usefull thing about them is that you can go for them in sparring without worrying to much about crippling your partner so you can practice them in an alive environment.

 

Yeah its that kind of training and thinking that I am talking about when I say people don't know proper pressure points. Sure you got Temples, sternum, floating ribs, kidneys, groin, and outside of thigh, but you have about 150 more and people seem to hear the word Outside of thigh so they hit it, kick it , and knee it and miss the spot. You need training and just because you know a pressure point doesn't mean you know how to make them light up.

The biggest thing is the muai tai kick to the thigh in every single kick boxing movie and K1 series everyone does the kick wrong. You have to angle your hip funny to an almost impossiable position and you are not suppose to kick hard, just fast and the person if they don't block, move, or throw thier hip into the kick will be on the ground crying. The more muscle on thier leg the harder the charlie horse and it's something I can only tell you about because I can't come through the screen and show you.

And its hard to do a video on it, because you have to "Feel" the move to get it. Its one of the toughest pressurepoint hits to perfect and do correctly in a Real situation or sparr because people dont relax enough and get trained properly.

 

Why on earth do you need more Pressure points than that? Firget them, stick to a few you know how to find and stuff the rest, the ones I list work on about 99% of people as far as I can tell, any of the less common sense ones seem to work on half of people. As for the right technique to hit them with, who cares, hit them as hard as you can then if you miss the target (Which is about the size of your fistb at best, is hidden by a load of clothing and is moving whilst your suffering from adrenalin rush and the shakes) then you do damnage anyway.

 

Try it for yourself

I am convinced it is completely impossible to write anything that will convince a skeptic that there is merit to studying pressure point attacks. They have to feel it.

That is one reason we are bringing Prof. Ron Chapel of SubLevel 4 Kenpo to Omaha Nebraska on October 15th 2005. He teaches a system of American Kenpo that has fully integrated "pressure points" although that is a simplification and really just one facet of his material. I am very excited to get his take on this material, and if anyone wants to know more you can PM me.

 

ManabiMashoMan has been absolutely anal about resurrecting EVERY possible thread on PP he can find in an effort to convince us they work. It's like a bad stalker.

 

Lemme see if I've got this right. Every K1 fighter does the muay thai round kick wrong. Because they're kicking too hard. But you do it correctly.

Get thee to a video camera. This I gotta see.


Stuart

 

And the judo instructors who train people to compete in competitions all get it wrong too.

 

Go away troll. you are a whole lot of talk but all I see is hot air. No one is impressed by your sokeship council (which as far as I can tell up is made almost entirely out of fake arts with some celebrity names thrown in) your mastery of PP, your masters ability to do 200 punches in a row, or the fact that your 6 year old daughter is faster than a black belt kyokushin fighter. Why dont you show some footage of you kicking ass and taking names before you make retarded statements like this. There are people in K-1 who have been trained by the BEST in thailand. if they dont know how to throw a thai roundhouse then maybe your idea of what one is is wrong.

 

Theproblem with people into pp is that they make the most ludicrous statements. I am sure they make them to wind every one up. I like pp and they do work in a limited way but to say muai tai do not kick properly or various masters do not know what they are doing is another example of some one opening their mouth and making a fool of them selves.

 

This thread makes me chuckle...

Don't be a dummy and try to hit precise spots from range, you'll be lucky if you get near the spot let alone the right angle or pressure to affect the opponent.....

Just relax, get in close and then feel your way in
(I would use italics for 'feel' btw but for some reason MAP won't do any 'features' for me at the moment - any ideas why?) Soft and easy, embrace your opponent like the gentle coils of a python then crush and twist and while he's feeling that one, launch your next attack, and your next... (repeat until he isn't moving anymore )
:Angel:

 

What you really need to hit pressure points is a customised chinese pressure point stick, the aincient masters invented them and imbued them with their chi energy to seek out weak parts of the body that would break under their attack, heres a picture of mine:

http://www.gp.lib.mi.us/information/about/Tools/sledgehammer.jpg