Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Revobuzz, Oct 17, 2011.
i probably shouldn't... but just for the lulz, here's higaonna being hardcore:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcjmPA2g26I"]Morio Higaonna: kote kitae - YouTube[/ame]
Inappropriate comment removed
Are you sure you wanted to write that??!!
No. No he didn't.
Hey man, you started it.
First of all that's called a joke! It was in direct connection with one of your previous posts. You quoted an article from the above mentioned papers...
Your reaction was more than inappropriate!
I know where it came from. I just don't take things like that lying down. Sorry if I struck a nerve, but you struck one too. :/
You were insulting and disrespectful to Kid_Moe - no excuses!
A frank, open and immediate apology is appropriate at this very moment.
Struck a nerve?! You were simply being rude... You mentioned my mother!!! That has nothing to do with striking a nerve but has everything to do with you being emotionally disturbed!!! I will not be dragged into a dispute by an online tough guy... I will just ignore you little girl...
Are you really that embarrassed/disgusted that you quoted from a gay news site?
Back on track please guys.
Find a buddy who's willing to spar with you, then spar with just body shots allowed without any hand protection. Spar vigorously and actually try to punch each other fairly hard. You will quickly see some conditioning is necessary.
Knuckle push-ups aren't hand conditioning anyways. Makiwara work technically isn't hand conditioning either, it's primarily for the development of the technique and the wrist. Building large knuckles is a secondary side effect.
And some apologies are in order, Chadderz. Your comments were wholly inappropriate and uncalled for.
Right you are. Chadderz clearly considers that hand conditioning is stupid. I'd like to argue the opposite hypothesis...
I suggest that not conditioning your hands if you intend hitting people with them may be rather unwise.
But what do we mean by 'hand conditioning'. Well increasing bone size and density (through accretion and mineralisation) would surely be beneficial? Bigger, stronger bones will be better equipped to cope with the stresses of impact - whether you get the technique right or wrong. I trust that no-one here would argue with that?
But can we make the bones stronger without damaging ourselves in the process? I think that clearly this is possible, given that many, many forms of exercise strengthen the bones. The simple act of the muscles pulling on the bones does this. Which is why older people are advised to exercise to avoid osteoporosis. I also believe (though there is as yet limited evidence for this) that repeated low levels of impact have a similar effect.
So to makiwara training. Its true that many people have damaged themselves hitting the makiwara. But there are many others who haven't. Look at Higaonna in the video that Fish posted. He is, I think, in his 70s and still doing what to most of us seem to be crazy things that would cripple us. How does he do it? I think its because he started - and continued - in the right way.
Gichin Funakoshi's writings give some hints as to how makiwara training was done in the past. You'd start the student hitting the makiwara as quite a young child, but they wouldn't hit it very hard. Even as an adult you don't necessarily have to hit it hard - you just do quite a few reps, quite often.
And this is the key I think. Look at what Higaonna can do in his 70s. Funakoshi started makiwara training as a young child, yet he was still doing calligraphy at around 90 years of age. Clearly he hadn't caused himself too many problems with his hands. So it is undeniably possible to condition the hands without causing major damage to the hands. But it needs to be done gradually, incrementally and progressively.
Okay okay, so here it is:
Conditioning your hands DOES happen all the time. When you hit the pads, or a heavy bag, they all strengthen your bones. Fine. If you punch to hard, or open a fracture, you are welding two or more bones together. That is why I find it dangerous to condition your hands, because there are so many bones there.
Press ups on knuckles help forearms and wrists in a way that press ups on hands don't.
Press ups on knuckles do no harm to your hands.
So what's the problem?
I think we have moved on to hand conditioning in general now Mitch
Dangerous if done incorrectly or recklessly. When done progressively and intelligently, it has little risk. Much in the same way makiwara work conditions the fist of a karateka as a side effect, so does a Thai boxer working the heavy bag condition the shins as a side effect. The primary purpose of both is to develop a powerful technique.
However, if you EVER plan on using a closed fist as a striking instrument, you'd be wise to look into some type of hand conditioning.
I'm slightly confused. I've not heard of Wolfe's law before but I don't see anything on that page that supports your statement above. Where does it mention "welding two or bones together"?
If you punch things and mess up the cartilidge, your bones can fuse.
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