preferred grip..saksak or pakal

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by ptkali778, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    hi guys! im just curious whether you guys have a preferrence on knife grips and the reason why? and also when using double knife? do you use 2 saksak, 2 pakal, or mix? mix being one hand saksak, and the other pakal. for me, i tend to use saksak alot in sparring, because of its reach, i use pakal once in a while. any inputs would be great. oh and yes if this thread was posted before just ignore it, just direct me to it, i'd like to read or know some of your thoughts.



    thanks!
     
  2. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    i am told not to prefer one over the other because sometimes you find that you're gripping your knife that way because of the way you drew it.

    personally, i prefer saksak. gives more distance and allows for more dexterity.
     
  3. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I take it that saksak is regular grip? (What we referred to as langhit or heaven in our school) And pakal is icepick grip? (What we referred to as lupa or earth)

    I like saksak, mostly because I'm tired of hearing people say "don't worry if a guy holds a knife like this because all the experts use icepick grip." I like disabusing people of that incredibly stupid notion.


    Stuart
     
  4. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Preferred Grip

    The question answers itself if you substitute 'knife' for 'stick' or 'sword'. Yes you can use a stick or a sword in a reverse grip, but you lose the advantages of reach and dexterity.

    I asked Doce Pares Grandmaster Danny Guba what he thought, and he said, "Whilst we do of course practise with our knives held both ways, in a real fight, I'd use Saksak grip every time."

    Pugil
     
  5. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Another thought...

    Just another thought... When using a single edge bladed knife, which way do you prefer the edge to face - when holding the knife in both forward (Saksak) and reversed (Dunggab) grips, and why?

    What I mean is: If you are holding in Saksak, do you prefer the edge to be down, or facing up? In the case of reversed (underhand) grip, do you prefer the edge to face out, or in? What are your reasons?

    Pugil
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2005
  6. mike-a

    mike-a Eskrima Geek

    In general saksak, especially at long range. Closer, and defensively there are some reasons for pakal (ease of knife-draw, hooking etc...)

    When sparring I'm nearly always in saksak, as are most the guys I play with. Except Jarred, my JKD/kali teacher. He has amazing attributes and can pull off pakal even at long range. I think a lot has to do with his study of Ray Floro's methods, which are predominantly pakal.
     
  7. Jesh

    Jesh Dutch Side Of The Force

    Heaven grip for me...
     
  8. Killbot

    Killbot Valued Member

    I guess I train with a normal grip for the most part, but I have moved toward the tendency to use regular grip, but with the blade up, facing me (if I were holding it straight up). Its about the only way to use a single edged knife for shearing while trapping without changing grips.

    But i do like "earth" or reverse grip it feels like it puts enough push behind the blade, that I don't feel I need to worry about deflection on bone...which is a problem for the sabre grip with a knife.

    my two little cents./
     
  9. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    if im holding a knife on saksak grip i'd prefer it to be edge down, now for pakal grip i was told depends on the size of the knife... :D
     
  10. mike-a

    mike-a Eskrima Geek

    As regards edge...

    (I only spar with training blades, so this is all theory!)

    For pakal, edge facing in. Again, it's 'cause of Ray's teaching. Pulling the opponent in. Defensively the Floro system holds the knife high, and all attacks are below it, and cut by the inward facing edge (Caveat: I have not had very extensive training with Ray, so I speak with *no* authority).

    For saksak, both ways. To explain: way before any FMA training, I trained in a japanese jiujutsu style, that had knife as part of its teachings. Knife was always held at the hip, blade up to slash at incoming attacks from underneath. I dont think this is a bad thing, always seemed perfectly reasonable. That said, these days in sparring, I always seem to strike stick/sword fashion ie leading edge.

    Never actually had to cut someone, but both ideas seem to have merit, depending on the situation.
     
  11. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Like every one else I work both grips whenever possible. However, I tend to feel much more comfortable in Pakal. But it definitely seems a bit less flexible than Saksak.

    - Matt
     

Share This Page