Practicality of "movie" technqiues

Hello,

I was wondering how practical it is to use typical "movie" techniques such as a butterfly kick if we actually had to use self defence. What is your opinion?

I suppose it is not practical at all to use those techniques in a real situation, but practicing them in class may help improve our balance, speed, and timing. If we can nail a complicated technique, then executing the basic, more practical technique should be a piece of cake.

Jason

 

or you could not practice the butterfly kick at all and just practice kicks that work in the frst place.

 

The martial art moves in movies are made to look good, not to be effective, for the most part.

 

On the contrary.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTiJ7A1DLV0&feature=related"]Karate Kid[/ame]

 

I stand corrected

Let me know when you can catch a fly with a chopstick

 

Maybe you should go back and watch said movie with Le Butterfly kick and then look at the scenario its being used in... look anything like a self defense scenario to you? Last time you had to wade in did you get a big chance to get a running start to throw a fancy theatrical kick and your assailant just stood there waiting for it land?

Seriously.

 

Resistance train with solid contact. Find out.
No amount of text will matter in the face of that.

 

there are some movie fight scenes that i would consider "real world" worthy if you could learn to execute it like the actor did.

 

its a case of useing common sense. yea some movie fight moves would work and some would not.

Examples of ones that would work: Indiana Jones in a fight with a much larger nazi, distracts his attention then slugs him in the jaw, Dexter in the TV show named after him is engaged in a standing struggle for control of a knife, he then lifts his leg and knees the other man in the testicles.

Examples of ones that would not work: Jet li in IRON MONKEY bounces from leg to in a gracefull motion kicking monks in the face as they all watch on and do nothing in their own defence. In dragontiger gate , when attacked by a man with a chair, instead of moving, or throwing up his arms, axe kicks through the chair and hits his assailant.

 

Oh god no. They're party pieces, rather than anything seriously suggested for self defence. Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong with party pieces. I'm a hobbyist, not a full contact fighter or anything like that. I like flashy stuff because it means I can use my body to do all sorts of cool stuff, not because I believe it would actually work. But they can make your practice sessions a lot more fun.

 

You practice things like flying kicks, butterfly kicks, spinning kicks and the like becasue they are fun and look cool...NOT 'CAUSE THEY WORK!

 

Bluntly put, such flashy kicks are totally useless in a practical situation. As others have pointed out, the setting up of the technique would be too long, that the agressor would have you already pinned.

It is also amazingly dangerous to pull of some of these flashy techniques. There often is a high chance for you to land on your leg funny(or mis the landing completely ), and sprain your leg, or do some other serious damage. In the business, we call this "being F****d".

Honestly, in a true self-defence situation you wouldn't need anything more than kickboxing and/or judo; nothing flashy and extremely practical. However I always recommend a nice pair of running shoes and avoiding dark alleyways

If you want to look at movies for inspiration, watch Bruce Lee's movies, and some of Jackie's stuff (he is amazing with environmental weapons).

 

For that matter, not to start style bashing, but why do people train in Capoeira?

It's a style completely comprised of what one would call flashy kicks :S
I used to train in it (2 years or so) but had to quit, because there seemed to be no basis in realism or practicality.

Penny for your thoughts?

 

For that matter, not to start style bashing, but why do people train in Capoeira?

It's a style completely comprised of what one would call flashy kicks :S
I used to train in it (2 years or so) but had to quit, because there seemed to be no basis in realism or practicality.

Penny for your thoughts?

 

Depends on the group. It runs the gamut from entirely dance to supplemental kicking, footwork and optional techniques for MMA. My coach's matelo is like getting hit with a friggin axe. Not the handle, the axe.
On its own I don't think it's going to make you a rounded fighter, but in the right group it can definitely produce very dangerous kickers.

 

The chicks.

Or failing that I did it for a bit because I liked the concept of looking at movement from all angles. Just the sheer physicality of it. The usefulness of being able to handle your body through space in different orientations.

 

Not all capoeira is the same, for one. For another, I can see a lot of appeal in practicing something as a cultural celebration. I think people tend to descend into this bizarre, paranoid "life is a struggle for survival" scenario that they describe as "realistic" when it bears very little resemblance to anything I've seen or experienced.

To me, practicing something that serves to make me feel good in my day-to-day life is more useful than wallowing in some bizarre world view that suggests that I could be jumped by assailants hell bent on my destruction but also unwilling to shoot me in the back from a passing car.

I don't accept that the only reason to practice a martial art is to fight. I think that's heavy in the mix. But it's not all. I do believe that a style's practice needs to match up with its claims. But most of the capoeira I've seen claimed to offer a window into Brazilian culture and tradition. And they generally seem to live up to that goal.

 

I get where your coming from. I have only see one group that practices as you say, it highly resembled savate. But I find that Capoeira comes with so much extra baggage; I'm mostly talking about Angola and Regional styles, which incorperate the ginga, and there's also a lot of singing and music playing. I guess I'm not that interested in Brazilian culture.

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I remember now!!!

Well the only thing that I can say that I gained from Capoeira was some extra flexability. However, this can also be accomplished with yoga or extra hours of stretching.

 

"To me, practicing something that serves to make me feel good in my day-to-day life is more useful than wallowing in some bizarre world view that suggests that I could be jumped by assailants hell bent on my destruction but also unwilling to shoot me in the back from a passing car."

For this specific point, I have major objections too. I grew up on an island in the Caribbean, not to paint with a broad brush, but most Caribbean islands are as you described. It also never helped that I was a "Whitey", as most locals believe that white people are all tourists, and are thus rich.

I'm currently on vacation on the island again (after my exodus for college), everyday I've been reading the local paper, and practically everyday I've heard about a murder or a mugging. So in otherwords, there are certain places you don't go, and there are certain times you just stay home.

Example: Today - a 25 year old man stole a front end loader, and took it for a joy ride. Yesterday - A young man punched another young man in the face, and then stole his scooter and drove off with it. A few weeks ago - a tourist on vacation was shot and killed; all his belongings were taken.
Not to mention that the drug trade is beatuifully transpirant in the Caribbean. So much so that anyone can pretty much get anything they want (be it cocaine, weed, XTC, etc.) within 2/3 degrees of contact.
Point being made, it's a dangerous place.

I found that practicing TKD gave me a type of confidence, and re-assurance that if I am to be attacked, then there is a better possibilty for me to survive the ordeal. Most psychologists tell you that, predators avoid confident people, and mostly target submissive or weak looking people. And I have found this to be mostly true, as I have rarely been picked on since joining TKD.

However, there are other reasons for joining a martial art. As you pointed out there are cultural reasons for joining, like Capoeira. Some would say that Tai Chi has health benefits, which is another reason. Others joining for learning how to fight. etc. etc.

But most schools of Capoeira that I have seen, relate more to dance than a martial art; sometimes it even feels like a music school. But the cultural aspect of it is not my problem with the art itself (albeit I dis-like Afro-Brazilian culture), the problem I've had with Capoeira, is that is poses itself as a MA, and the instructors also poses it as an effective MA. Yet when looking at the art I see a lot of loop-holes, weak points, and even dis-advantageous things as getting locked in one side of the ginga when the opponent is open on the opposite hand side (something that rarely happens in a more static stance).

For the sake of arguement, Ratty did point out that there are styles of Capoeira which can be said to be kicking supplaments to a MMA fighter; but what about the Angola or Regional styles (with the ginga incorperated)? Surely these are purely cultural and not rlly intended for practical application. It can be done, but it'd take a lot of interpretaion, and re-formatting of some of the techniques, not to mention that there are no other fighting stances other than the ginga which has many flaws and weaknessess.

P.S. - I seriously do not intend to style bash or insult any practioners of Capoeira. I'm merely trying to satisfy my curiousity.