Power without the Bulk

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Dragon Brush, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    Note the 'bodybuilding', are we bodybuilders? Hell no (respects to bodybuilders :D :eek: ) How do we differ from bodybuilders, not only do bodybuilders train solely for hypertrophy, (whilst we train for both hypertrophy and strength, two totally different things, but I'm sure you already knew that) and they also train pretty much every muscle in the body. You display a poor knowledge of biomechanics and yet you accuse us, the hardworking MAist of not knowing what we're on about, for shame. :) Of course bodybuilders would work their biceps seperately, they think the biceps are the coolest.
     
  2. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    Harhar never said he never trained his biceps, infact he'd be foolish not to. What we're all getting at here is that compound is generally better for functionality (in a fight) then strength. True you need to keep muscle balance, but this can easily be done with compounds, ie. Bench press for your triceps and Chin ups for your biceps, those two exercises will generally keep your muscles in proportion with echother, if they get out, then maybe you should chuck in some isolation.

    Give me a good example of when you use your biceps in a bicep curl action, against your opponent, or even in regular life.

    Oh and the only parts to the biceps is the lateral and medial head, other than that there just two muscles that work as a team.

    And aren't you a MAist, if so, why do you think EVERYONE in MA has no idea what they're talking about, and you are the golden boy or something? Why would we start a H + F forum if we didn't have knowledgeable peolpe?
     
  3. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    Why would you be stronger than him on the deadlifts? Biceps has little to do with it, your back would give in whilst his would be going for the next rep. Barbell rows you would only be using your biceps if your palms were up, if they were facing eachother or down you wouldn't be using your biceps (you'd be using your brachioradialis and brachialis, but I'm sure you already knew this too). Yeah, you'd be better than him at bicep curls, but whoopdedoo and good for you. You wouldn't be any better with the pullups because the majority is back, and you'd mostly be using brachioradialis. Lat pulldowns, same goes as what I said for pullups.

    I think you do need to go into it, cause this is the first I've heard about compounds only doing so much, unless you're talking about genetic potential. And I've done deadlifts three times a week before, certainly wasn't overtraining.
     
  4. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    Fair comment, but do have time to isolate every single little area no your body, cause I sure can't get through all that in an hour.
     
  5. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    Is there some reason that MA would have closed minds? In my experience, MAists are some of the most open minded people on the planet, as opposed to bodybuilders, who stick to what they've done, not all the time what is best for them.

    And I'm confused, are you not yourself a MAist, or you just like posting on MA forums.
     
  6. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    The question that you have asked them is very broad. You have asked them if they isolate their arms. That alone is very broad. You have not asked how or why, whether they do it for aesthetic reasons or if they do it for pre-exhaustion methods. Also, you're getting some pretty bad advice from some of them. One guy said to do hammer curls to work your biceps...
     
  7. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    :eek: I know that's alot of posts fellas, but I got here late :D
     
  8. harhar

    harhar I hate semaphores

    Quote from BigBoss's link, "if your arms get a little bigger, your bench shirt fits tighter"
    Bwahaha.. what a great reply.
     
  9. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Please include them all in one post next time! No need for seperate ones ypou post whore :D :Angel: :D
     
  10. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Seconded!

    nForce - I happened to skim over the point that Yoda addressed, and I have to agree with him. Read what he said, then realise that you can't isolate parts of a muscle. Using movements like concentration curls to improve the peak of your bicep is simply pointless - it doesn't work, it is down to genetics what the shape of your biceps is.
     
  11. Colucci

    Colucci My buddies call me Chris.

    Okay wait...what did I miss? This seems to be another one of the "Sure I can train like a Mr. HyoooooogeGuy competitor and be a super-awesome fantastic martial artst" posts. Sorry I'm late to the party guys. Though, somehow I'm sure there's nothing I could comment on that hasn't already been brought up by Samurai, McG, or Yoda. Give me an hour-and-a-half to read the first few pages, then I'll be back with something more productive. :D


    ----EDIT - so as not to be a post-whore (I love that line :D )----

    On the need for training biceps (taken from Elitefts.com, sorry, there is no working link):
    Okay, so the strongest guys on the planet will sometimes do 2 or 3 sets of forearm-dominant curls per week, as well as consistent heavy pulls (variations of deadlifts) and all sorts of rowing. Get the point?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2005
  12. MTK

    MTK New Member

    Its not about size at all its about strength and skill. You can build muscle and not bulk, and still be small, just dont strain yourself.
     
  13. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Also, remember that the guys Bewater is talking about do a huge amount of volume per week, 2-3 sets is nothing.
     
  14. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    They still do it non the less, and to the guy who said you can only work your muscles as a whole, incorrect. I dont have my notes and ahvent used them for a while, but both biceps and triceps are made up of different groups of fibers, like briachles (sp?) etc, and you can use different exercises to build peaks on your biceps and triceps. Dumbell and barbell curls are called the mass building exercises, preacher curls, isolatio and incline db curls are said to define the muscle, i.e. the peak.
     
  15. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Those are all MYTHS, that's what we were saying. Read the physiological facts that Yoda posted, then tell us how you could possibly explain it, you won't be able to. The angle of attack on a muscle during a movement has nothing to do with what area grows more. Just because your notes say it, doesn't mean it's true. It is scientifically proven to be untrue. The bicep is made of 2 biceps brachii, and the triceps have 3 heads (hence the names bi and tri), but they are both attached to the same tendons at the end. Concentration curls will not increase the peak of your biceps, even shoddy fitness mags are beginning to admit this now.
     
  16. Colucci

    Colucci My buddies call me Chris.

    Please try to find those notes, they could be useful right about now. :rolleyes: You may be thinking of the brachialis and the brachioradialis. Those are completely different muscles from the biceps brachii, but there are some exercises which may recruit them more. The important thing, though, is that they are not part of what most people call "the biceps".

    Trust me Force, you do not want to go toe-to-toe with McG about anatomy unless you have all your ducks in a row...and even then, he'll squash them into duckburgers.

    You probably still believe that you can "isolate" the upper pecs with inclines presses and lower pecs with declines, right? I would whip out my favorite man-boob analogy, but I think everyone's getting tired of it. :eek: Suffice it to say, if you could "build one part of the muscle" with certain exercises, does that mean that I could do a 4-month peaking program, using only preachers, concentration curls, and incline curls (or whatever) and end up with the world's largest bi peak? Is that possible?
     
  17. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    This degree that is keeping me in on a Friday night studying for finals has some value at least :D
     
  18. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    To go against what everyone else here is saying, without notes... foolish. And you're confusing the brachialis and brachioradialis, they're seperate muscles and are not part of the biceps muscle group.
     
  19. ThaiMantis

    ThaiMantis New Member

    functional strength

    not much in the way of core strengthening or stabilisation in this yoda?

    although squats & deadlifts are to some extent i suppose.

    i spend a fair bit of time on the swiss ball (generally after the heavy weights) doing narrow & wide pressups and balance work. also situps with opp leg raises etc, and heavy abs work (incline bench with d/bs) heavy twists on the cable pull for obliques etc.

    find it seems to work well cos after youve exhausted the major muscle groups in low rep heavy compound work, the smaller stabilisers seem to get a better workout with balance & stability on the ball?

    what do u think?
     
  20. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Absolutely.

    Core stability is an essential area - and is best done at a seperate workout to give it the attention it deserves. I would never do work requiring balance whith my major muscle groups fatigued. That's just asking for trouble.
     

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