Power to Bodyweight, Strength without Mass

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Kat, Jul 31, 2003.

  1. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    I know lots of MAPs and MA people in general are focused on increasing Mass through your training.But for quite a while now my focus and training evolves around increasing my strength and power without increasing overall mass.
    This is not the way for all but I think its applicable to those of the smaller frame genetics.
    www.usa-gymnastics.org/publi...h-training.html

    This explains it petty well.
     
  2. Jazman

    Jazman New Member

  3. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    Yep thats the one
    Cheers Jazman
     
  4. Greg-VT

    Greg-VT Peasant

    Thanks for posting Kat. Filled in a few gaps.

    Tah
     
  5. Nimrook

    Nimrook New Member

    Anyone mind breaking it down into moron terms for me?
     
  6. Jazman

    Jazman New Member

    I'm kinda lost myself, I'm only good at finding the right links, not understanding them :D
     
  7. Hwoarang

    Hwoarang New Member

    Jazman: SUPERB STORY!
     
  8. Greg-VT

    Greg-VT Peasant

    It basically says to perform low reps with about the same amount of sets. Using the highest weight you can handle. There's a table down the page... It might help explain it better.
     
  9. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    powerlifting can be beneficial for the martial artist since the movements are also done explosively and you focus on getting streonger , not necessarily getting bigger
     
  10. AsSaSiN

    AsSaSiN New Member

  11. djhallib

    djhallib Guest

    Well, yes, the two articles do propose two opposite theories, both claiming that theirs is better.

    I will try to explain this the best I can.

    The fact is, that 1RM training will increase strength with less growth (making it better for fighters who need to think about weight limits in competitions), but at the same time, the strength doesnt last as long.

    High rep training, as in the second article increases muscle size and also increases strength. What happens there is that the muscle stores more energy in the forms of Kreatine-monohydrate (my chemistry-english = not good) and glycogen, to allow the body to sythesize the atp it needs for that particular exercise.

    So, a fighter from article #1 has more strength for his weight, but also doesnt last as long. The fighter from article #2 has less strength, but can use it longer.

    The ideal training however is neither #1 or #2 alone, the ideal training would include 1RM strength training to increase strength, but actual fight-related training to increase the endurance. That includes sparring, bag-training and air kicking and all of that.

    That gives us the ability to kick and punch for longer and also the maximum strength to put into it.

    All that is suggested in article #1, but for gymnastics instead of martial arts. However, the two share the same principles of exercise.

    So, AsSaSiN, your article does say the opposite, but based on older, obsolete theories about fight-training.
     
  12. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    I don't know why that article emphasized endurance so much, I guess its because its geared toward sport fighting. Real fights dont usually last very long. Looking at the two, I'd actually go with a phase-based training, perhaps looking to bulk up quickly first, and then when the inevitable flattening and staleness of results comes, trying to make the most of those muscles with the low reps. I think I might try to incorporate this into my own training, I've been working off the low rep theory exclusively.
     
  13. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    endurance should make you seem faster because you stay fresher, I suppose.
     
  14. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Ever heard of the phrase 'Gassing out'?

    That's why you need some kind of balance between 'Power-Orientated' and 'Endurance-Orientated' in your training.

    And you can Gas Out in a short 'Explosive' Real fight.

    How many times have you seen some guys 'punch themselves out' after say fifteen, twenty seconds? and start huffing puffing etc.

    Adrenaline does great things but if you don't handle that surge in a 'channeled' way, you may find yourself thinking:

    'What the ****?-But i'm really fit and yet I can't breath and my muscles feel like Jelly'.

    Happens in 'Sport-Orientated' bouts, Happens in 'Street-Fights', Happens all the time.
     
  15. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    I didnt say endurance training was useless, but that guy kind of said strength based training wasnt worth as much as endurance, which I think is false. I also dont think people who train for strength "dont really need it", as he said. I weigh a lean 160 pounds at 6'2", of course I need more strength. If someone is training hard for strength, its because they feel more is necessary. Unfortunately for some of us, more doesnt really come at all. :(
     
  16. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Yup it's all of worth.

    160 pounds at 6ft 2?

    Oh I feel for you, I really do.
     
  17. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    Used to be 130-140. It doesnt seem to wanna go up any more. Neither does my strength in general. I think I'm just too poorly built.
     
  18. djhallib

    djhallib Guest

    If we're talking about street fighting, then everyone needs more strength. I'd rather be able to throw maximum of 5 punches but knock out in every one then to be able to throw 50 punches that only sting, but don't really stop the fight.

    If we're talking about sports fighting, I'd say everyone who isn't in the top range of your weight class, needs more strength. For example, if your weight class is -68kg I would like to strength train until I'm 67kg on my fighting day. I would first go for muscle mass, then after a set period of time, switch to the low rep high weights. When I get that high, I would go for mass again, unless I'm getting close to my weight class maximum, then I go all out low reps high weights.

    Endurance training, imho, isn't about doing more reps when lifting. It's about high-intensity interval training either kicking bags, kicking the air or plain sparring, where you emphasize making each kick really really hard.

    So I think you don't have to choose whether you train for stamina or strength during the weights days, because I only lift weights for increased strength.
     
  19. r4bid

    r4bid New Member

    little off topic but might help Tireces

    Tireces if you are having trouble gaining muscle then you are either not working out hard enough or are not eating enough. Check out bodybuilding.com for tons of articles and a nice forum that will help you learn how to grow.
     
  20. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    On top of meals, I drink a gallon of milk a day. And I train fine. Some people just have really bad genes, and grow all wrong. Thats me. Bodybuilding magazines usually cater to workouts and advice from people who take steroids, and a site called "bodybuilding.com" probably isn't any different. So thanks, but no thanks.
     

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