Posting videos for peer review.

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Joe V., Feb 1, 2006.

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  1. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Just a quick question to all the Seniors.
    Would you object to having your techniques posted on the web for review by the general public and your peer group in the Arts???
    Please include your reasoning pro or con.
  2. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    It's Okay with me.....

    Well, Sensei Joe, you know where I stand, lol. I did a demo at a big tournament in Boston at the Reggie Lewis Track & Field Center on Kempo Hands- speed striking, (alternate and consecutive striking) punch techniques and grab technique including Korean style kicks (spinning back and jump front ball) plus gun disarming from all angles. It was pretty diversified.

    It was at the World Martial Arts Federation (WMAF), a highly respected New England based organization's yearly tournament in the fall of 2003. I wish the hell I filmed it but there were plenty of cameras out there, someone must have it. If you do please contact me at and I'll post it. Assisting me as ukes were Sensei Ron Ortla and Sensei John Erickson of Milford Studio of Self Defense. Kudos to Shihan Kathy Shuras for technical assistance.

    Pros, I don't know, it was fun and you get to show your brothers and sisters in the arts what you do. The public usually enjoys a good demo too! I think it's good for the arts and free advertising, lol.

    Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2006
  3. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    There are more who agree.

    I am going around the web looking for videos of Kempo/Kenpo. I will post the links in this forum and after viewing the clips. I hope we can have some intelligent conversation on the clips.
    Lets start with this one. Go to This will bring you to the main site.
    Click on News.
    To go the picture captioned "Linn-Punch Defense"
    For comparisson...
    Go to
    Click on the "On line Store"
    Click on the "Beginning Students on line video"
    Scroll down and click on "Shaolin DM 3"
    Please pardon me not direct linking. Not all our international Brothers in the Arts may get the link to work.
    Please review both links and then we can begin the discussion.
  4. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Thank you Professor for your post. I agree with your comments. I know you are confident in your practice of the arts. I have seen you move and I greatly respect your abilities as a Martial Artist and your character is above reproach. Professor, I have posted some links that show 3 combination in two forms. The essence of the combination is the same.
    However, I see a huge difference in execution of the technique.
    Just my opinion, but I think the kempokarate link combination. Is somewhat lacking in focus, I have a hard time seeing how the power is being generated there... Also the speed at which the technique is executed just looks to slow to me.
    Just my opinion
  5. snow_tiger

    snow_tiger New Member

  6. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Salute to Dr. Nick Chamberlain

    Hi Sensei Joe! Thank you very much for the kind words. I truly appreciate it.
    Yes, Dr. Nick Chamberlain's school, he's the 'real deal'. I can see you are very analytical with an attention to detail and proper body mechcanics. That's a good thing! I know first hand you have a very strong, solid foundation in the arts. I salute your instructor(s). You can't build a house on a weak foundation and it looks like you have built quite a nice house in my estimation, lol.

    It's a real eye opener that you have a Chamberlain 'brown' belt in comparison to a 7th degree black belt in a 'related' system, so other than the major difference in rank of the practitioners, you are comparing apples to apples in a sense and that's all I'll say about that.

    Dr. Chamberlain has a very strong background in Nick Cerio's Kenpo and Karazenpo Goshinjutsu-Hawaiian Shaolin Kempo Method, so many of his techniques and movements are very familiar and similiar to my own studies since we are a branch from the same tree. I remember seeing Dr. Nick at a Master Bill Chun seminar a few years back in Massachusetts hosted by NCK w/ Hanshi Craig Seavey. The technique shown appears to be a blending of NCK's 'Conquering Shield' with the takedown and follow up of Shaolin Kempo's #3 combination. I like it. Conquering Shield was a variation of Shaolin Kempo's (KGS) #15 combination (this is what Prof. Cerio told me when he taught it to me, I also have the original #15 of SKK).

    Conquering Shield can be found in Nick Cerio's Kenpo form called 'Circle of the Leopard', it's at the end of the form. Circle of the Leopard was based on Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu's #2 Kata that is found in Shaolin Kempo Karate. In the the NCK version, after the grab and pull into the right back two knuckle punch to the head in a forward stance, you go with a left cross knife throat as you shift your weight and stance simultaneously with the strike (for power) into a rear slant type stance.

    I would rather only go with what I feel, in my opinion, of course, is the positive of the two. Yes, the Chamberlain example shows the NCK and Shaolin Kempo (KGS) flow and continuous motion. The focus is there, you can see nice body alignment and precision. So, you have accuracy, speed, power with an overall flow of movement. What is IMPRESSIVE in the comparison is this is all from an 'Intermediate' student, a BROWN BELT of Dr. Chamberlain's school. It would be interesting to see this Chamberlain brown belt perform the same technique when he is a 7th degree black belt! Then, it truly would be comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Salute to Dr. Nick! Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras
  7. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Am I a senior? :confused:

    Anyway, I look awful on video. I really need to work on that. I'm always talking to the people instead of where the camera is and so the sound sucks, I tend to play the crowd and address questions on the spot instead of sticking to a script or teaching plan... :bang:

    As for the question, I wouldn't mind having techniques of mine posted on the web, but I have seen myself on video many times and have to laugh at myself. I look like a bad kung fu theater actor, everything is all choppy, one instant I'm in one place, the next I'm somewhere else. Definitely I've seen video of people that look much smoother than me. Plus I'll demonstrate one technique and then when attacked at full speed, I might do something else, whatever works, I don't think about doing a technique, I just go about in subjugating the enemy... oops, take #2, oops, take #3....take #10. LOL

    Seriously though, I think that to do techniques justice on video, things have to be slowed down to half or three-quarters speed so that the full technique can be shown with good timing and flow.

    Full speed stuff just doesn't look like what it is like to really be there. The camera misses subtle and quick things at 30 frames per second... IMHO.
  8. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    I’ve been doing Shorinji Kempo for a while (nearly 18 years), but I’m not senior in grade.

    I wouldn’t have any concerns regarding the posting of video clips of myself, but then I don’t have any so it is a mute point. I have participated in demonstrations, most of them only small; although my training partner and I was asked to help out by performing an embu (demonstration of martial techniques, they can be set or developed between individual partners) when 60 budoka from the Tokyo Budokan came out to demonstrate the different Japanese forms of budo a number of years ago.

    There are a number of videos of Shorinji Kempo performing embu on the web, I can’t speak for the owners of these clips regarding posting them, but I’m sure they won’t mind you viewing them. What should be acknowledged when viewing these is that there is a structure to them based on developing levels of tension and drama. When done well they look good. Another aspect is one that Rebel Wado touched on. While an embu should be realistic with accuracy, distance and technique there needs to be consideration for the audience and your partner. Often observers have no understanding of martial arts, or at least Shorinji Kempo, so techniques need to be slowed down a little, and the movements made a little larger so they can understand what has happened. Along with this goes slight changes to some techniques; these are mainly nage waza (throwing techniques). While in normal practice it is possible to throw someone as you would realistically, this can be dangerous in the excitement of embu performance. Often a nage will be changed slightly to lessen the possibility of damaging your partner. The technique will fundamentally be the same, it may just focus a little more on balance rather than joint pain. As we usually train and perform embu on wooden surfaces consideration is also given to how you can allow your partner to fall safely.

    For a look at some embu performed by some Japanese university students (not senior grades)click here and go to the wonderfull world of embu link. There are a couple of videos by senior sensei on the net but I will need to find their web page's.
  9. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Salute to Dr. Nick Chamberlain.

    Thank you Professor for your review of the techniques and thank you above all, for your kind words about my Instructors. I bow to you Professor.

    I agree with you, Dr. Chamberlain does do an awesome job with his students. His brown belt is well schooled in the basics. As you know, movement like that, requires years of drills and practice.
    I saw the intent of the combination on the "higher ranked" video. I have to admit I was a bit embarassed that such a high rank would move like that. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt... He may have been recovering from a VERY serious illness. lol! Or... a paper cut. Hey, those certificates can be dangerous when mishandled! lol!
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  10. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    I will look at the videos mentioned in earlier posts. I don’t know that any observations would be relevant, as I don’t know anything about what the principles and goals are of your techniques. At the moment I’m a little busy with work to spend the time needed to contribute anything meaningful. Hopefully over the weekend I will have more time. In the meantime you could have a look at this site the vids are not how to do techniques as such, but rather experimenting with different aspects of techniques. I’m sorry there is no goho techniques shown, just juho. This is a senior kenshi, he has since passed away. He was one of Doshin So’s direct students and has a tremendous reputation in Japan for both his juho and goho skills.
  11. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    I agree with you, sometimes video can miss the nuances in balance and position that can really make a technique work. However, I think video can reliably be used to judge "soundness of motion". Essentially, check for the basics.
    Sir, by the sound of your post, I would say you qualify as a Senior. lol!
    Test for Senior Status... If you can remember when Instructors used to turn away prospective students because "they didn't look tough enough"... You are a Senior! lol!
    If you can remember when points were awarded in sparring only if you "moved" (Read: "Knock the wind out of", "Bloodied their nose" or KO'ed) your opponent... You are a Senior! lol!
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  12. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    I went to the site you recommended...
    I was impressed with the movement of the demonstrators. It seemed very close to the Aiki Budo techniques I have learned.
    All the demonstrators showed excellent focus, balance speed and flow. I see full commitment in every strike and move, the three man fist sets were very well done as well! What an excellent endorsement the demonstrators are of their Instructors! I bow to you Sir!
    I hope more people visit your suggested site and post their reviews as well.
    Thank you for sharing that link!
  13. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Snow Tiger,
    I could not get the link to work. Is anyone else having trouble opening this link?
  14. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Professor Chow Videos

    This link shows the only videos I have ever seen of Professor Chow on the web or anywhere else for that matter.
    Go to Click on the "Prof. Chow Video" link.
  15. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Thank you Again for the excellent link! The economy and fluidity of motion are very impressive! The last person I saw move like that was Professor Larry Garon. Unfotunately, I have not been able to locate any videos of him on the web. Professor Garon the Founder of Buke Do. He is also a Shihan in Hakkoryu amoung his many advanced titles.
    Thank you Colin, for sharing your lineage!
  16. snow_tiger

    snow_tiger New Member

    Sorry, Joe. It was a bad joke-- a clip from Napolean Dynamite of "martial moves". Probably no great loss on your side.

    Colin... I liked what I saw on that site. To my untrained eye, a lot of the movements resemble small circle jujitsu? (And I'll take for granted that wasn't a swastika on the uke in video 2? lol)

    To speak to the original question of this thread, I think it is possible to judge overall performance via video. I think the video of Mr. Geary leaves a lot to be desired for a 6th dan, and speaks volumes as to why he would threaten civil action against anyone seeing other video technique from him. JMHO
  17. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    I'm with you on your insight, snow_tiger! :)
  18. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    That video is about 5-6 years old... 3rd at the time I think?

    The request to not show it was mostly to protect material held private by Hanshi Lou Angel. if he was embarrassed of what's on the tape, would he have sent it to be evaluated for rank in teh first place? he didn;t know that they wouldn't look at it LOL

    I'm trying to get some more recent video, but work, school and a sinus infection are slowing me down.

    meanwhile, let's see Prof. Shuras in action!!! or Joe V. c'mon you guys, put em up! :D
  19. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    I have 2 great ideas!

    Okay, David. Open invitiation-Mr. Geary seems to like to travel. I'm just in the process of moving my school next door to a huge place, 5500 total square feet, 2500 sq. ft. training area, it was a gym before. Lot's of extras, showers, sauna, steam room, etc., got a good deal! I'm psyched. Let's eliminate all the variables of 'the videos are old', slowing down for the camera, bad camera angles, whatever........let's do back to back DEMOS-LIVE for a Grand Opening!!!

    Sensei Joe V., I'm sure will want to participate, Joe, your people and instructors' are welcome, GGM. Gascon and entourage will be coming to my area soon, we can count on them. Sigung Brad Namahoe of the KGS BBS does some superb and dramatic breaking!!! I'll get my good friend and instructor Hanshi Craig Seavey and some of his NCK guys and girls. Sounds like a plan to me!

    Oh, we'll be waiting for Mr. Geary and we'll be real easy to find. We'll be known as the 'blue man group'! Yes, we'll be the guys in the corner holding our breath waiting for the Nebraska group to show up, lol. Oh and by the way, if I could clarify something. The video in question that Prof. Rash and GGM. Gascon received the letter about was not the same clip on his website that Joe V. posted about. Geary does not want the public to see the video he sent to Mr. Rash and Mr. Gascon for his review for his 6th dan, NOT 3rd dan! it seems pretty recent to me. David, let's not get into the sarcasim again or the thread will only get closed, if that's what you want.

    Furthermore, I'll be glad to get together with Joe V. and the boys and make all kinds of film clips for the net, as a matter of fact, I am in the early stages of constructing a website so I could use them for the future site. I'm from the 'hammer and chisel' era or I'd have one already, lol, one of my high ranks is going to do it for me, thank God! However, I would rather "BARGAIN", if Mr. Geary can't make it to my Grand Opening where all demos will be video taped with no foolish legal papers against release, let's do this. We will make some clips for the net providing Professor Geary signs a release to Mr. Rash and Mr. Gascon to post his video wherever they see fit. All in favor reading this say, aye! Aye!!!!!! that's one vote so far!, lol.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  20. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    "Bargaining Power'

    Let me state this before you 'call me on it'. I am not going back on what I stated in my first post on this thread. I said it first, so I'll stand by it even though it will screw up my 'bargaining power', lol. There were lots of cameras rolling at the WMAF tournament in Boston at the Reggie Lewis Track & Field Center as I stated before so if anyone does come forward with it, I will have it posted as I said. You have my word on it. Respectfully, Prof. Joe
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