Pope States: Big Bang and Evolution Theories are real

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Hannibal, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    By that measure though you can argue ANY God is beyind our reckoning and so followers Cthulu, Hecate, Kali, Bob et al can do whatever they want
     
  2. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    No one should be allowed to do whatever they want, but they should be allowed to put their point across and people should be willing to listen.

    (Note: I'm not saying anyone here is not listening.)
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I hear your point clearly - I am merely pointing out that the logic is exceptionally dangerous and offers no more validity than belief in any other deity or worship practices of same
     
  4. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    It is very dangerous and doesn't offer any more proof in my God than Thor but the only thing I can offer is my witness and I can't judge someone for saying something else that contradicts me, they might be right.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Which in and of itself suggests it is flawed to even begin to approach it that way

    "Oh you just don't understand" is not acceptable at ANY level, be it role based, government based, economic based or politically based - it sure isn't acceptable at a divine level

    Personal gnosis is the key to religious thought but "ineffable" cannot be used to excuse or justify - otherwise Charles Manson is every bit as religious as St Francis of Assisi
     
  6. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Now I disagree with this. I'm happy to agree on nobody except me?
    I'll let you know dependent on the first bit :)
     
  7. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    It is not so much a matter of you just don't understand, more a matter of I just don't understand. If we lived in a world without laws then I very well might be talking harsher words about rallying troops and forcing some ideas upon people, the only reason I'm not is because the thousands of years we've had have given us a reasonable starting point to talk about all points of views being possible. We have set down enough rules that we try to stop the extremes and yet we can openly discuss them (generally) thus I say that it is not for me to judge anyone.

    Harsher times may call for harsher measures though.

    Well obviously the rules have some leeway for all long standing or sitting, as the case may be, members of the map community.
     
  8. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Actually it is a legal defence in the UK for the importation ( & exportation?) of illegal firearms. Go figure?
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Leagl it may be, but it is not acceptable

    (pedantry ftw!!)
     
  10. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Kept me out of trouble FTW :)
     
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    If there is a god of any sort I doubt he cares one whit for the strange and temporary thermodynamic disturbance we call life. Much too busy playing galactic snooker with black holes and supernovae and such.
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Basically theistically guide evolution or "supernatural selection" as opposed to "natural selection" is just another form of intelligent design. It's inserting a deity into a process that doesn't need it in an attempt to keep that god relevant.
    All (most?) of the scientists working in evolutionary theory aren't working on a theory that has god in it. Appropriating that work and saying "god nudged it to make humans" is just piggy backing on their work.
    It's yet another, slightly more nuanced version of "god did it".
    If religious people think that's what happened they need to put some leg work in and find evolutionary stages that needed nudging.
    For example....the Cretaceous–Paleogene (K–Pg) extinction event is thought to have opened up space for mammals and other lifeforms to evolve into niches previously occupied by the dinosaurs.
    Without that event it's highly likely that dinosaurs would have continued to reign and mammals would have been stuck as small, furtive creatures unable to take advantage of other life niches.
    The K–Pg extinction event would be an example of a stage where evolution needed a helping hand in order to branch off into a route that created humans.
    But if god needs to send a massive meteorite to smash into the earth to do that then he's pretty much just a colossal bodger.
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    For all the reasons above, I think if you're going to believe in deities the antagonistic demiurge of Gnosticism has the most evidence going for it.
     
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think I went out with her. Very argumentative. We split up.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hey, the only reason I follow Kali is so I CAN do whatever I want!

    I don't like your overtones of religious suppression :p

    As for Cthulhu, you don't follow him. He follows YOU ;)
     
  16. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Jeez I'm rusty on all this stuff...if I'm not mistaken (which I probably am), you're talking about the "smaller" creator entity attached to physical existence that likes sticking the knife in, aren't you?
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Do not maketh me smite you with mine Heathen Hammer!
     
  18. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Religions stories have been explained as allegories since science has started undermining the bronze age superstitions one by one. The allegory explanation is nothing but a goalpost-moving strategy that attempts to reform the surface of the religious arguments without having to abandon the core belief.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  19. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    exactly.

    in one sense, american creationists are right because if you can't take the bible literally, what do you have? like you mention, allegories. but their problem is that they indeed, the creationist, does take the bible literally so you get complete and utter nonsense that matches no observation by any scientist ever. and then, those same creationists have to resort to some serious hilarity, like the speed of light is faster going one way than the other.

    https://answersingenesis.org/astron...nchrony-convention-distant-starlight-problem/

    "don't you see, i've solved the problem by simply re-defining the speed of light. don't worry that this has never been observed, nor can i make any predictions like einstein did. i've solved the problem, the biblical timeline is correct if one just assumes the speed of light is actually different in one direction"
     
  20. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think that's a relatively recent phenomenon, like post 1970s. Not saying that the religion as allegories isn't vulnerable to this sort of charge, just that it's novel that people are taking it as the… word of god.
     

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