Pope States: Big Bang and Evolution Theories are real

Then what created the terribly complex and amazing thing that created us? Using your principle, it must have been created, right?

 

I uhh. I think you're joking. I'd be really, really happy to discuss this in detail with you in a non insulting, friendly and evidence based manner, but I don't want to type out a huge post for someone to just say 'j/k bro.' The fact that you've restated William Paley's argument makes me think that you're just trolling.

 

Being in a country where Catholicisms is pretty much everywhere, I can confirm it's no big news. Children are taught in the church that "God started evolution" - though mostly when they start arguing with the Adam&Eve story because they learnt about evolution at school. Though I've also heard about Adam and Eve being primates and similar stories.
It seems this Pope is a very good marketer though.

 

Our bodies are incredibly complex things, but they evolved over millions of years from far simpler organisms. To suggest that the big bang 'created' our bodies is either a strawman argument, or else you are mistakenly overlooking millions of years of evolotion.

 

But what is his opinion on studying what happened before the big bang?

 

#Goddidit.

 

Really? I thought they observed it first... [edit: nope, just checked it out. It was the temperature and the non-uniformity they didn't predict.]

But yeah, the whole complexity/beauty argument wasn't convincing 800 years ago when Thomas Aquinas came out with it, and it's even less convincing now.

 

That may be what they state but they'd be wrong IMHO.
Either humans evolved by natural selection (an unguided processs) or they were created by god (at best some sort of evolution by supernatural selection).
Can't have it both ways.
The catholic church is trying to have it's blessed cracker and eat it too.

 

Why not?

To me, it seems more like (sorry for the crappy analogy) holding a wheelbarrow full of fertilizer at the top of the hill and then just giving it a nudge to get it going. What happens to it after that is entirely up to nature, gravity, environmental conditions, etc.

In other words, God was the spark that "nudged" our evolution in a certain direction at a certain point, but everything that happened as a result of that nudge is an entirely natural process. Thus you get natural evolution with divine guidance.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's how it feels to me it's being argued.

Gotta give 'em props for trying to find a way to fit their faith into modern society though rather than flat-out ignoring it.

 

Absolutely this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!

Baza

 

That analogies on point actually.
The problem isn't that god started it (even that is precluded to me because evolution is an emergent property once certain factors are in place)...it's that it had an intended outcome using that process (namely the production of humans).
It'd be like god nudging the wheelbarrow but then also following it down the hill and nudging it from time to time so it followed a course of his choosing and ends up stopping where he wants it to stop.
That then stops it being evolution by natural selection.
As you said it then becomes "evolution with divine guidance" and that is an entirely different theory to darwinistic evolution.

 

You guys are missing the obvious answer:

Aliens

 

Pfffft. Everyone knows they were a side project.

 

And another thing...evolution by natural selection is a HIDEOUS process.
It is literally built on eons of suffering, pain and death.
A god that uses that as a means to create something, especially when he seemingly has the power to do it another way, isn't all loving and benevolent.
He's a sick psycho.
A god creating humans via evolution is like me making my daughter the most intelligent child in her class by killing all the kids cleverer than her.

 

Nah. The previous centuries of persecution and flat out trying to supress what they didn't like kind of mar that IMHO.
It's not like they didn't try to ignore things in the past (hell they are still only just emerging from trying to ignore paedophile priests for their entire history).
Basically they are trying to incorporate evolution into catholocism because they can see you can't deny that it's true.
But they can't fully embrace the ramifications of it either.

 

Deuteronomy 6:15
for the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.


Putting human morals and emotions on something that isn't human is a bit off. Like saying that eating live squid is cruel, while in certain countries there is no negative connotation put on it at all.

 

Human morals and emotions?
What like jealousy and anger?
Seems to me human morals and emotions are already attributed to him in his damn book no?
Like in Deuteronomy 6:15 perhaps?

But either way...by all means worship an angry and jealous god that creates things through pain and suffering.
It ain't for me.

 

It is cruel. Whether someone finds it morally repugnant or not is up to them.
In certain counties and cultures there's no negative connotations to slavery, genocide, racism, child sacrifice, animal torture, yadda yadda.
Good luck arguing there's no negative connotations to those things.