Dear All, As many of you are aware, different organizations have different requirements for their use of titles. Most specifically the title "Master". Most often the title seems to be associated with a specific rank (generally 4th to 7th Degree Black Belt), while other schools use a more traditional approach of making appointments of title and position separate from Dan Grade. I have provided a few options on the poll for you to help make it easier for me to keep track. Also, I would love for you to explain a bit if there is any unique determining measure your school uses, or if you would simply be willing to share your perspective or interpretation! TAE-KWON Spooks
Seems to me it's something people adopt when opening a "blackbelt school of extreme excellence and coolness" to get more punters through the door.
We are a WTF TKD school (now part of the Independent Taekwondo Association under GM Pellegrini) whose roots come from the Oh Doh Kwan. While we were still under our old association (the ODK group), an instructor became a "master" at 4th dan. We were a small organization (and we were an even smaller 'offshoot') so higher ranks were few and far between. Most school owners when I started were 1st or 2nd dans. Our area was supervised by a 3rd dan who had "special dispensation" from the Grandmaster to function as an acting "master" (for promotions and such). Part of this was for practicality (administrative stuff) and part because of his talent. Later on, as the system grew, the rank of master was moved up to 5th dan. Under the ITA, initially 4th dan was considered "master" and eventually it became a separate certification - black belts were selected and recommended for the various "instructor" ranks (assistant, full instructor, master). Later, the rank for master moved up to 5th dan as well and the appointments are rank-based now. Personally, I like the distinction between "master" and "master instructor". "Assistant Instructor" help out and "Instructors" can handle the day to day load of classes (and supervision of individuals) but a "master instructor" is someone who has worked a long time at making the art work for themselves as well as their students. The time in grade works out to be just about long enough to have spent time as an instructor and to have brought several students all the way from white belt to first dan. That should be the hallmark of a master - bring a substantial amount of students to become proficient (and worthy) black belts. And a Grandmaster should be someone who has brought a substantial amount of black belts to become master instructors. You're not a "master" of anyone, but you can be a "master instructor" of the art if you have devoted the time and energy to becoming an excellent student and an instructor who has produced a significant amount of worthy black belts.
In our club 4th Dan is officially Master (when you get the title), but is apparently considered more of a "Junior Master" with full Master recognition coming at 5th Dan.
Hi Spookey Does age or the number of years training have a bearing on the award of a 'Master' title? Regards Peter
I think that part of the why there is differences is that there does not appear to be the translation into master in Korean. SaBumNim means more of an instructor. In the ITF this comes in at 4th Dan, provided one successfully completes an international instructor course & obtains a separate serial numbered certificate from the ITF (note this is not the training certificate that participants get from taking the course). When one passes the threshold of 7th Dan in the ITF they are considered masters, those who fully understand both the physical & mental (spiritual/Do) of TKD. However at 7th (& 8th) Dans they are now called SaHyunNim. The translation form this is not master either, but more towards "wise & benevolent teacher". This helps insure that the leaders of TK-D put the pen above the sword, so to speak.
Yes (in the ITF) one must have a certain amount of minimum time in rank before they promote or advance to higher Dan levels. Dan level advancement is based upon years, as that is where experience is gained, through the passage of time while involved in your Art. Additionally there is an 9 year old minimum age for 1st Dan Jr. BB & 14.5 years old for 2nd Dan. Finally there is a minimum age for 4th Dan, as well as an International Instructor & Class "A" International Umpire. I have also noticed the trend to add in minimum age requirements for the master & GM ranks as well, which the KKW has done already.
Because it's normal in a lot of walks of life to earn a title after a certain period of time or skill level. Why should PhD graduates be called "Doctor"? Why should heads of churches be called "Reverand"? It's just a title of respect that shows the person has studied for a long time and reached a high level in it. Personally I prefer being called by my first name by students (although it is a novelty being called Master as I'm new to the rank), but for my club (teaching children who are used to calling their teachers Mr Smith or Dr Jones) they will call me "Master Jeffries". Part of the reason for that is that if my instructor visits my school, it should be natural for them to call him "Grandmaster Pan".
ok i guess i can see that. i really can't wrap my mind around calling ANYONE master at this point in my life. is that weird?
I guess it depends whether you're thinking "master-servant" or "master, teacher, mentor". Personally the former meaning never comes in to my mind when I hear the term Master, but I started learning (a long while ago) when I was 12 and so it's always just been natural for me to call masters "Master Smithinson" or whatever.
I think the reasons people take umbrage with the title master are the connotations that the person has mastered something (we all know that never really happens in the martial arts) and the links with the aforementioned "master/servant" realtionship. Neither of which are particularly good. I've no real problem with a title to denote standing and achievement but "master" is a horrible word.
In my organization I am a 'Master'. I personally don't like the term myself. Not so much because it is wrong. Think about it...you get you 'Masters' after 6 years of university study. My main problem is that Star Wars and Kung Fu movies have totally screwed up the word and made it just weird. So I'm uncomfortable when anyone uses it, particularly a teenager because I can sometimes see the Jedi-nerd inside putting connotations into the word I really don't want there. But if you take it in the college form (one who teaches, but is not the 'be all and end all of his profession) then i don't have a problem with it.
I'm a firm believer in what was said in the karate kid: belt mean no need rope to hold up pants. seems like anyone can get a blackbelt these days, but I'd like to know how long they've been training in it rather than what degree they are. I'd also wager master is on the same lines as "expert." I could go on about how in a video one of the guys said "if someone practices something for 10,000 hours they could be considered an expert" but its a bit different with martial arts. I would have to say that the master title granting should fall to an existing master/grand master.
master grade at my dojo is appointed at 4th dan but i wouldn't consider anyone a master as i dont believe in the concept of "mastering something"...i think there is always somewhere to expand on knowledge and ability
Okay I would say that maybe we shouldn't look at the title master as someone who has mastered something entirely or that is a master over servants. Rather the way I have always looked at it was that in the days long gone, there were tradesman who honed their skills under the tutelage of a "master craftsman". They worked as apprentices until someday they were good enough to go out on their own & work. Once people utilized their services & saw that they were talented in their trade, they were also looked at as master tradesman, like a master blacksmith. Now there was no WBA (world blacksmith association) that gave out fancy certificates that the blacksmiths hung in their barn or workshed! People simply saw the quality of their work & called them masters of their respective trades! This is what I look to when I have my concept of a master in the MAs. They are not my master or a master over me, nor do I think they have mastered everything there is in a MA. But by their talent, experience, work ethic & product output, I come to see them as being a master of their trade. I am proud & honored to called deserving MAists masters or in the case of 9th Dans, GMs! JMHO
