Please, someone give me the honest low-down on HKD. . .

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by shadow_priest_x, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. hkd_instructor

    hkd_instructor Valued Member

    Maybe you should just ask someone to post a description of the art, or google each and read them. Hopefully that way you'll get a clear picture.

    I've been doing HKD for 25 years, and wouldn't be able to tell you specifically what the main differences are between HKD and Aikido. I can, however, tell you the differences between a few different HKD methodologies.

    I've been fortunate enough to train with Master Bob Ingersoll in SeaSide/Monterey area as of late. He shares stories regarding GM Ji, Han Jae and the 15 years he spent with him. Very interesting, and great history to help your understanding of the art and technique(s) you may or may not study.

    Best,

    HKD Instructor / aka MasterLock (affectionately known as...)
    www.christianacademyofmartialarts.com
     
  2. DKYLE

    DKYLE Valued Member

    Hi Again,

    :) In your original post you explain as differences what i simply see as similiarities between the two arts, in Aikido we should strive to create ever smaller movements and always trying to maintain the defense of our own centreline, so for example from your original post saying in Hapkido you must keep your hands in rour centre to me appears to be just another similarity between the two. Aikido is executed triangularly, and large circular movements must be in our partner or attacker and not in ourselves, to circle around an attack leaves many openings and is simply not effective. So decisive positive triangular entry using correct timing, kuzushi, intention and body alignment is paramount. Aikido techniques all have ara waza (severe) applications which again i just imagine to be perhaps the focus of the Hapkido training you mentioned. All Aikido techniques MUST be performed to allow the application of these if wished by using the above mentioned principles. It is the training in this way that allows less severe but in no way less martially correct and effective techniques to be applied. :) In that you looked around before deciding on one art or the other again to me just means it comes down to a choice of what is right for anyone person. Large circular movements and a philosophy learned by some from books rather than on the mat is to me just simply not Aikido. :)

    D
     
  3. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Mmmm.....just to make sure we keep perspective here, it may be worthwhile to comment.

    There are practitioners of Hapkido whose execution and philosophy are quite closely allied with the Japanese Aikido arts. This has no small connection to the efforts of the late MYONG Jae-nam in fostering a melding of Korean and Japanese practices. Taken a step farther, there are practitioners of Aikido in Korea who use the Korean reading---"hapkido"---- for the Japanese KANJI for Aikido.

    Moving away from that Korean-Japanese Aikido/Hapkido connection there are also Hapkido practitioners whose methods are essentially a melding of Korean kicking material with Ju-jutsu grappling as well as arts which have combined the same kicking material with Chinese boxing and grappling. Lastly there are still practitioners who have elected to practice material as close to the original techniques said to have been brought from Japan to Korea by CHOI Yong Sul. These latter techniques are quite utilitarian and effective as they are challenging to master.

    I don't wish to make a case for one practice over another. My only concern was that we didn't go too far in drawing parallels with Aikido without maintaining some balance. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  4. DKYLE

    DKYLE Valued Member


    Hi Bruce,

    I hope it does not seem that i have been trying to make a case for one practice over another, and i'm sure there may be very many technical differences between the two arts but i doubt that the principles of the two are worlds apart. It is simply the misconceptions of Aikido i was seeking to redress, and perhaps shed some light on. :)

    Regards
    D
     
  5. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned


    Agreed, and parallels with Aikido are not without their applications.

    As was just mentioned, one expects that the authority with which a technique is applied ought to grow with the experience of the practitioner. In the Pre-WW II practice both at Nakano and later at the infamous "Hell Dojo" Ueyshiba was well-known for painful and effective techniques.

    I can also report that at Guemsan, SK the traditional Hapkiyusool level of Hapkido can be exceedingly uncomfortable to learn, reportedly taking as long as 3 months before the joints of the practitioner can handle the manner of the execution.

    All of that said, I must also report that Hapkido is generally a commercial venture based on a MA theme. It has been demonstrated that while it is an effective fighting art, the cost in discomfort and dedication are often much more than what the typical consumer is willing to pay. For this reason, most Hapkido teachers report teaching "Hapkido" while gradually morphing to larger circles, larger motions, acrobatics and inflated curriculum in order to retain students. I am not a huge fan of this, but I can't deny the consumer's role in shaping the practice in this manner.

    Traditional Hapkido is very effective. It is also a demanding art to learn and master and finding a good school is very hard. Most teachers talk a better school than they actually provide and the result is that there are plenty of folks who think they know one thing when they have actually been taught something else. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  6. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    When aikido first came out of Japan 1965 it was already suffering from what Bruce has been saying about modern hapkido. I was already shodan at the time in aikido which resembled that shown in the dynamis sphere book. My teacher, Chiba shihan immediately graded me to white belt telling me I had to start over.

    MAIN LESSON..AIKIDO IS not A CIRCULAR ART. The attacker is made to spin spiral and circle around the aikidoka not the opposite.

    At a higher level the arts have far more similarities and are most effective.As I posted on another thread the arts are effective when executed by experienced proponets. The assuptions of those with no personal experience of the arts are of little relevance.


    regards koyo
     
  7. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Thanks, Koyo:

    As a side question, have you found that weapons work in Aikido is rather uniform across various traditions or is it definitely associated with only particular groups? You comments or any information you may have would be appreciated.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Bruce

    Iwama aikido of Saito shihan emphasises aiki ken and aiki jo and is the weapons art left by O senei Ueshiba.(see bokken basics aiki ken thread) Other masters of aikido have developed their own sword and stick methods as well.

    Saito shihan called his training aikido riai meaning complete with weapons training and atemi.Personaly I feel that saito shihan's approach integrated the principles of weapons perfectly with the empty hand techniques.

    Basic principle of sword and practical aikido..attack at all times show a superior fighting spirit and cut through the opponent's intention to attack.

    A far cry from the attitude imagined by those who have not been exposed to it.


    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  9. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Many thanks, Koyo:

    I have Saito's 5-volume set and the interfacing of armed and unarmed body motion is fascinating to study. In the KMA I have not been able to identify a construct which represents the Japanese term "RIAI". In such cases the term "MU-DO" is used loosely to indicate a teaching approach that seeks to teach the same sort of relationship. All the same its good to know that the traditions are being kept alive and promoted. Thanks again.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     

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