Pekiti Tirsia Kali announcement

If you read this carefully, it actually frees Tim Waid to do whatever he wishes for as long as he doesn't call it PTK.

 

Yep. So I guess the question is whether Tim Waid feels he can continue forward on the strength of his own name.

 

Actually, Tim Waid has carved out a little niche for himself teaching private security companies and personal defense companies in the Philippines. I doubt his clientele would drop him based on this. Plus he has his own students. So yeah, he could do this without PTK.

Quite a few people have been "expelled" from PTK and have continued what they are doing. Daniel Foronda in Russia and Tuhon Bill in the US to name a few.

 

So is the implication that all of Tim Waid's students are also expelled? Their credentials not recognized?

Obviously, I don't think it matters in the big picture. You can do what you can do. But I know a lot of people put more stock in the affiliations than I do.

 

Anybody else picture that scene from thor when odin casts him out and his armour shatters and hammer flies off. Wander if the banishment was anything like that?

 

Looks like it is a "from now on thing" for his students.

 

If history is to be followed, the GT will send a new teacher and ask the students to choose between Tim or PTK. Those that choose to stay with Tim will be out.

 

Remember this thread?

Remember this thread?

 

the Tim Waid: Counterpoint via fb

ap, here's what I got from fb:

In the last few days, many of us PTK practitioners were presented with a certain letter whose goal was to attempt to bar Tim Waid as a legitimate representative of the Pekiti-Tirsia system. I, for one, was extremely proud to see so many rally to support Tim and speak out distinctly and passionately on his behalf. I understand that support has come in from all over the world, encouraging the Global Organization to continue to pursue its high standard of excellence in training and instructing the PTK system, and for Tim to continue to lead in that regard. This document will stand as my counterpoint to the many accusations contained in that letter. They are as follows:

1. "Tim Waid has continuously been discourteous and disrespectful to Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje, Jr. as well as other Tuhons and instructors of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. He has repeatedly manipulated the trust of members of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community. His actions have undermined efforts made by others to unite the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community. This includes purposely dividing the loyalties of students in the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community for his personal gain.”

- Let it be clear to all that there is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate these vague accusations. I would invite anyone to find any public evidence of Tim Waid disrespecting Leo Gaje, or directly attacking any PTK instructor. You will find none. What you will find are incidents too numerous to count wherein Tim Waid has paid deep homage to Leo Gaje, both as his personal instructor and source of the PTK system. In fact, just one week ago, Tim was interviewed in an online pod cast on FMATalkLive.com discussing the PTK system. In that interview it can be plainly noted that Tim acknowledges and pays respect to Tuhon Gaje not once, or twice, but numerous times, for his promotion and propagation of PTK over the decades as well as being the source from which Tim teaches. In that interview, Tuhon Tim Waid even respectfully acknowledges Tuhon Erwin Ballarta (by rank and name) for his contributions in inter-agency development between Law Enforcement organizations in the U.S. and the Philippines. This is evidence for anyone to hear, and is absolutely representative of Tim’s high regard for Leo Gaje over the last 25 years. And again, there is no evidence of him manipulating anyone’s trust or of purposely dividing anyone’s loyalty. Let’s be frank, there is no ONE Pekiti-Tirsia Kali “community”, so how can anyone cast aspersions or make claims speaking on behalf of the “whole community”? At best, this is hearsay and at worst it is gossip mongering. The simple fact remains that Tim Waid and Leo Gaje founded the Pekiti-Tirsia Global Organization over a decade ago, that it is responsible for the revival of PTK in the U.S., that it introduced Grand Tuhon Gaje to an entirely new generation of practitioners and conducted Tuhon Gaje’s seminar and camp schedule for the entirety of that time. You will find no one that can tell you Tim Waid actively discouraged them from seeking out and training with the Grand Tuhon; every PTKGO DVD production is dedicated to Leo Gaje as the source, every PTKGO class, seminar, and camp ending with the salutation, “Galang, Tuhon!” – Respect to the Grand Tuhon.

2. "Tim Waid has hindered the positive growth and collaborative efforts of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community by making personal attacks on other officially recognized instructors. He has misrepresented his authority by falsely claiming that he is the only source for authentic Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. Furthermore, Tim Waid has created bad relations with other martial arts styles and organizations by directly insulting members of those communities while representing his views as those of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community."

- Another accusation that has no basis in reality and lacks any public evidence. Where is the proof of personal attacks on officially recognized instructors? Where are these attacks for the PTK community and the world at large to see? You will not find evidence of Tim Waid “directly insulting” members of other MA styles and communities. You will find him researching, communicating, debating, advocating and otherwise engaging these communities with a high degree of intelligence and professionalism. And while not always coming to the same conclusions as others, you will find no death match challenges issued from him, no rancor or personal insult issued to other styles or systems or their family members. Here is yet another fact: nowhere will you find a scrap of truth to the statement that Tim claims he is the only source of Authentic Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. What he does assert is that PTKGO is the only source of Authentic Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, and it is important for the viewing public not to be duped by those that would blur the line here. Remember that the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali Global Organization is the collaborative effort of Tim Waid AND Leo Gaje. It exists to extend the full system of PTK, as it was taught to Tuhon Gaje by his grandfather. This means the full compliment of the system, the training methods in detail, both foundational and advanced – not incomplete methodologies or subsystems. In this regard, the Global Organization, past and present, does represent the Authentic PTK system, to suggest otherwise would mean that Conrado Tortal spent the many years he had with his grandson training him in the 64 Attacks or Tri-V method or anything else that is less than the full scope of his family art. This simply strains reason. All one has to do is visit the PTKGO.com website. Right there in the header of the Home Page are the words, "The Only Source for Authentic Pekiti-Tirsia Kali". You will see only one person’s picture right next to it, and that is of Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje.

3. "This action of terminating the relationship of Tim Waid and Pekiti-Tirsia Kali is an effort to protect the trust and camaraderie of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community, maintain the positive values of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali community, and prevent bad relations with the entire martial arts community. We hope that this action will keep the future of Pekiti-Tirsia
Kali growing in a positive direction."

- Speaking for myself, I can only conclude that this action is actually an effort of only a few that would seek to use their personal relationship and access to Leo Gaje as a means of furthering their position and settling personal grudges. If this was an act undertaken by the entirety of the so-called “Grand Magisterium”, I would like to hear those individuals account for themselves publicly, as I believe many others would as well. While Tim and certain other instructors are in disagreement on many issues, it is foolish to believe that the entire PTK “community” and the martial arts community at large is in need of being ‘protected’ from Tim Waid. He is indeed very highly regarded by many who practice PTK and other martial arts around the world. Testimonials are available.

It is regrettable that the reputation of a combat system as formidable and as highly esteemed as Pekiti-Tirsia Kali must, once again, endure the incredibly damaging actions of an unstable minority that in seeking to avoid divisiveness, only created it ten-fold. In the end, Tim is an individual of high integrity, professionalism, and honesty. As he and the Global Organization move forward, I suspect he will do so in a manner true to his character: maintaining the highest standard he is capable of in training and teaching the combat system of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, and continuing to recognize and honor the knowledge, skill and contributions of his teacher, Leo Gaje, as well as the martial culture and history of the Philippines.

- Dino Martinez, Mataas Na Guro, PTKGO
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dino-martinez/tim-waid-counterpoint/10151915804928478

 

re-Branding

from the rumor mill...

Mr. Tim Waid was largely responsible for the para-military outfit and outlook of PTK. His connections as an ex-Marine stationed in Subic Bay played a large part in PTK's military/LE portfolio. There's a glimmer of chance that PTK is parting ways from it's current para-military posture and look. As part of this re-branding Tim Waid had to go.

The above could be wrong, but seems to make sense--re-branding... it should be interesting what they come up with.

​

 

Haha yep.

 

That would make a certain amount of sense. I was thinking about this in relation to a recent discussion with Kagete about PTK branding. His argument was that PTK was "tribal" rather than paramilitary. And, when it was pointed out that the depictions of PTK in popular [martial arts] culture were almost exclusively paramilitary, he challenged me to find pictures of four prominent PTK teachers in paramilitary gear.

To his credit, I couldn't. Thing is, I could barely find ANY pictures of those individuals. Which reinforced my point. The depiction of the style in popular [martial arts] culture streams ALMOST exclusively from two sources: Waid and GM Gaje. If this is an effort at rebranding, then it'll be interesting to see what it does for the perception of PTK overall. And whether their will be a clear, directed effort to move away from that image and toward something more... traditional(?)

In any event, there's always another side to the story. Thanks, Onpoint, for providing it.

 

FMA traditionally has always been depicted as "native". Even after WW2 where guerillas who were associated with or adept in FMA had gone back to the roots of being "native".

FMA is tribal and it is based on the community. It isn't really military as it is more civilian in nature. Even during the revolution and during the various revolts, these were civilians who became combatants using the arts which have protected their communities and families.

Another historical footnote here would be that the Philippine Constabulary and the Philippine Scouts were trained in the old arts. Some units in the military have been trained by various teachers in various styles but it is still largely a civilian art taught to the military. Not the other way around.

 

blindside

It'd be interesting to see what blindside thinks of this re-branding effort, since he's lamented before about how PTK representatives tend to get banned at an alarming rate in many FMA forums.

I'm sure there's a correlation between para-military outlook and this blowhard attitude. With that said, I do think Tim Waid's and PTK's, in general, efforts at saving & promoting, arguably the best Jungle school ever, is commendable.

I hope with this toning down of para-military pseudo culture, their solid work in the military/LE sectors continue--just less of the craziness.

 

I can really only speak to the PTK folks who have been banned here. But the issue in those cases had little to do with the military image in particular.

 

Historicizing as Branding

It's more the mindset as contributing factor than anything.

As you've stated in other threads, the danger is more on branding & historicizing--hence perception, not so much for the outsiders per se--but the newbies in PTK, who then tend to believe theirs is truly an exceptional art, separate from other FMAs, when in fact they are ALL of the same stuff.

I blame the historicizing and military branding here, more than the actual technical differences, ie. Kagete's counter-offensive vs. blocking point.

 

Oh there was a lot of grape flavoured drink being consumed in that episode....

 

Rommel Tortal & Leslie Buck

No problem, ap. I'm subscribed to the Florida PTK's fb page, so I've been reading up on this little drama since the beginning. It's also interesting that the Tim Waid supporters are calling out [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9jxHsnstnI"]two[/ame] individuals in particular as the designers of Waid's ousting.

 

Kool-Aid Methodos

I agree, much of this can be blamed on the Kool-Aid.

I've been talking to a friend of mine who's somewhat in-the-know. He agrees with the re-branding theory, but adds the military fatigues are here to stay, as well as the penchant for historicizing of the product (which comes from the source).

The changes are more in how PTK "interfaces" internally & a now higher level of diplomacy towards other FMAs and MAs--a more toned down, nicer PTK, less adversarial, I suppose.

As for the original "announcement", more than likely attributed to some internal business dispute, aggravated by Tim Waid's group claiming he was the only one in PTK teaching the "authentic" and "complete" Methodos (I have no idea what that is), and all else suck.

It appears Tim Waid was given a chance to redeem himself, didn't show last weekend and GT Gaje PNG'ed him, now we're waiting for Tim Waid's rebuttle and explanation (I could write a telenovela with this).

Here's two screenshots of GT Gaje's fb pronouncements:

1.


2.